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Darwin Fish
Posted: 10 July 2007 10:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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I just realized that the only time I ever heard anybody disapproving of the Darwin Fish was at the opening ceremony of the CFI office in Toronto a few months ago. I forgot his name but supposedly he was “important”. He carried a twenty-minute monologue about how insulting the Fish is to the believers. Than he suggested we display something more thoughtful that celebrates the scientific accomplishments. Do you think we (the Darwin Fishers, according to Brennen) are insulting the churchgoers?

[ Edited: 10 July 2007 10:13 PM by George ]
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Posted: 10 July 2007 11:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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George - 10 July 2007 10:11 PM

Do you think we (the Darwin Fishers, according to Brennen) are insulting the churchgoers?

No. 

The Darwin Fish is the logical and quite humorous response to the Jesus Fish.  Whoever came up with it is a genius.  It gets the point of evolution across quickly, visually and simply by using an already existing popular image that can just happen to symbolize evolution with the addition of the feet!  It’s a classic! 

Will some find it insulting?  Of course!  But there is nothing that can be done about that.  You will never be able to make all people happy.  Besides, if some people can’t take it, that is their problem, not the problem of the person with the Darwin Fish. 

No one has a right to not be offended or insulted - especially if you weren’t trying to offend or insult them in the first place!

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There are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the people by the gradual and silent encroachment of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpation.

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Posted: 11 July 2007 12:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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I have no doubt some see it as an insult, a mockery of something they consider holy. I regret this, and try to explain that is not my intent in displaying it. But in the competition of ideas, it is important to show that the perspective you champion has supporters, since whether it is right or wrong, people tend to be likely to consider ideas in some rough proportion to how many other people share them.

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Posted: 11 July 2007 01:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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I agree that it could be insulting to theists.  After all, the fish symbol is extremely insulting to me.  When they take all their religious symbols off of their cars, etc. in deference to non-believers, then I’ll lobby to get the non-theistic symbols off.  Until then, (oh, that’s right.  I shouldn’t even think words like that on the forum ) LOL

Occam

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Posted: 11 July 2007 09:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Well, I’ve seen “Christian” decals depicting their Jesus fish (labelled “Truth”) EATING a Darwin fish, so I don’t think they have any reason to complain.

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Posted: 11 July 2007 01:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Eating the evolved fish?  That’s very civilized.  rolleyes  Seems to me even in their symbolism they are barbaric cannibles.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 12 July 2007 09:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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advocatus - 11 July 2007 09:47 AM

Well, I’ve seen “Christian” decals depicting their Jesus fish (labelled “Truth”) EATING a Darwin fish, so I don’t think they have any reason to complain.

That probably means that if you are a bigger fish, you can call yourself bearer of Truth and kills every other fish that doesn´t agree with you…

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Posted: 12 July 2007 06:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Today I saw a particularly nauseating one.  The text said, “Now even Darwin knows he was wrong.”  It was followed by the image of a tombstone with a picture of a Darwin fish upside down, feet sticking up, and eyes Xed.  Yes, we mustn’t insult the theists lest we distress their sensitive feelings for humanity.

Occam

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Posted: 13 July 2007 04:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Well, it seems to me we could insult right back if they are going to do that.  We could take their fish and reveal that it is actually Pisces and Jesus was born in the age of Pisces.  John the baptist is actually aquarius and reveal all the rest of the astrotheology in their evolved PAGAN religion.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 13 July 2007 11:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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i had a darwin fish on my car for years—my car was actually covered in miscellaneous “offensive” stickers, when i lived in new england, and i got more grief for the anti-homophobia and gay humor than i got for my sciencey ones.

my funny experience included being followed on the highway by a family of four, and when we passed through neighboring tollbooths, all of them (including the driver) were pressing open bibles against the windows on my side, the two children in the back screaming something i couldn’t hear, and pointing to the open pages. it was priceless. i have no idea which sticker triggered that.

another time, i was followed by a man in a beat up pickup truck with a gun rack (sadly, you can’t make this up), passing through a painfully small town, and when i stopped at a stop sign, the man leaned out the window and started screaming at me “only faggots wear dresses!” (i presume this was in response to the sticker that read “real men wear skirts”). i, in my angsty teenage years, flipped him off out the driver’s window, and when he started to open the door to get out, i floored it, mostly out of fear. heh.

i get a big kick out of most of the crap i get for my beliefs. so enjoy anything funny that happens and post about it later. wink and have a great trip!

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Posted: 14 July 2007 03:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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This just reminded me that I have an old beat up Darwin fish sticker on my guitar case. I should really get some more of those.

I honestly don’t see where any religious person has any grounds upon which to complain.  The ratio of Darwin-fishers to regular-fishers (or cross-bearers, for that matter) is so much smaller it’s most likely a rare event if the people who are offended by them even see one. I mean, if I pitched a bitch every time I saw someone proudly displaying an implement of torture and execution I wouldn’t be able to get through the day.

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Posted: 14 July 2007 10:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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The ratio of Darwin-fishers to regular-fishers (or cross-bearers, for that matter) is so much smaller it’s most likely a rare event if the people who are offended by them even see one.

haha, totally… it makes me excited when i see one! they’re so rare.

i admit though that it DOES get me all up in a tizzy when people plaster their cars with bible verses and crosses and calvin praying to a giant cross (next to calvin pissing on a ford emblem).. ugh. i’m a bad person if i “flaunt” my athiesm, but if they flaunt their religion they’re just expressing themselves.

so with that said, DISPLAY THE DARWIN FISH WITH PRIDE!

smile

and buy them in bulk.

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Posted: 14 July 2007 11:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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I’m so glad I live in a civillised country. Nobody - atheist, christian, muslim or otheraise - would bother me about my atheism over here or think it was a bad thing.  The best I ever got was my mother taking me to see her uncle (a priest) one day when I was a kid and we happened to be in Carlingford (small village in Ireland) and it turning out to be a set up.  He said to me “you know, I think many of the young people are turning away from the church these days.”  I just answered “Yes, you’re probably right” and that was the end of it for me. However it was moderately big news in Carlingford, but they seemingly celebrated me as a diplomat rather than taking any other stance on the issue.  Compare and contrast that with America and a lot of your people have a hell of a lot of growing up to do.  It’s nice to see that your reasonable and intelligent ones can just laugh about the eegits they meet.

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Posted: 14 July 2007 02:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Gee, as a native of the United States I’ve always had the impression that the English were intelligent and sophisticated, but that the Irish were a bunch of beer drinking alcoholics who can’t get their colors, orange or green, right and are willing to kill each other without provocation.  Interesting how we may both have misconceptions about the other’s environment.

Occam

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Posted: 14 July 2007 04:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Occam - 14 July 2007 02:32 PM

that the Irish were a bunch of beer drinking alcoholics who can’t get their colors, orange or green, right and are willing to kill each other without provocation.  Interesting how we may both have misconceptions about the other’s environment.

Occam

No, that’s accurate - describes me perfectly.
The reason I get this impression about the environment that a lot of intelligent americans have to cope with is because I’ve been told by numerous Americans that the people who live near the coasts are generally rational, but that inland you have a whole load of fundies and ID proponents (same thing, I guess) and redneck christians with extreme beliefs that the bible is literally true, along with mormons pretty much controlling some states.  I’ve also been told that atheists have to keep quiet about their beliefs in a lot of places in the deep south for fear of violence (although that may just be paranoia).  I’d happily believe that this isn’t the case and I’ve never been to America so I don’t know, but from what I’ve heard it sounds extremely different from over here.  In this country and in Ireland being an atheist is no big deal and in general our christians, muslims, hindus etc are nice people.

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