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Babylon 5/Star Trek and Serious Sci-Fi about the Shape of Things to Come
Posted: 23 August 2007 11:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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I like Trek and B5 equally.  I liked Minbari and Betazoids the best, but the thing is Gene was a dreamer and I think that is part of what we were seeing in Trek.  He dreamed that one day we would wipe out proverty and alike.  It’s a good dream to strive for, but I don’t know if I would really label his dream communistic (logicrefreshing mention that).  I doubt that was Gene’s intent, but B5 did deal more with spiritual/religious matters than Trek did.  However, I see a lot of Humanism mixed into Trek too- ie “We strive to better ourselves and humanity”.  There are more such things that you can see in the Humanist Manifesto that Gene threw into his shows.  Even so, I think they both dealt with humans v. the universe, humans v. humans/humanoids, and other things.  So they both covered a lot of topics that people deal with and will probably deal with in the future.  I only hope that Gene’s dream comes true and people place less emphasis on religion, seeing it more as a myth than anything else.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 24 August 2007 12:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Damn, my senility’s setting in, Mriana.  I recall the name, Minbari, but I don’t recall anything about them.  Could you jog my memory by describing an episode or a bit more about them?  Of course, being a D.O.M., I also liked the culture on Reisa. LOL

If you go way back, how about the apparently primitive culture that Kirk tried to save from the Klingons, but which turned out to be very gentle, but far more advanced, and who caused all the weapons on both sides to not function so they stopped the war?

Occam

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Posted: 24 August 2007 01:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Delenn was a Minbari.  Some Minbari have have telepathic abilities but not all.  They have three castes in their grey council- the Warrior, the religious, the Worker.  Only one human has ever defeated them in battle before and he stands behind Delenn. “If you value you’re life, I suggest you do the same.” ~ Delenn Delenn is Minbari, but not of Minbari.  If I remember right, the Minbari posses the most powerful ship that can fight the bad guys- the Whitestar.  Delenn and her side kick are of the Religious Caste.

Here’s a couple sites about the Minbari for you:  http://worldsofjms.com/b5/governments/minbari.htm  (this mentions the small telepathic population)

This one has less info, but you get a pic with it.  :D http://www.b5tech.com/minbari/minbarixenohistory/minbarixenobiology/minbarixenobiology.html

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 24 August 2007 02:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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This was one of the more interesting Minbari moments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRxqorKqqkc

They are also known as Boneheads.

Grey Council

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC1nW9D1_OM

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Posted: 24 August 2007 08:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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I can’t understand the first one, but I remember some of it and it is one of the reasons I love Delenn.  The second one which is easy to understand, I love captions LOL , and it shows another reason why I think she is so great.  The lady has guts!  :D I wish I could find the one where she says, “There is only one person who has survived a battle with the Minbari. He is behind me.  If you value your life, I suggest you do the same.”  That was a great scene too, IMO.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 24 August 2007 12:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Mriana - 24 August 2007 08:43 AM

I can’t understand the first one, but I remember some of it ...

The man lying on the bed is Marcus.  The Minbari that laughs at the end is Neroon.  Neroon had come to B5 to kill Delenn because he thought she should not become leader of the Rangers.  Marcus challenged Neroon to a fight to the death to stop him, knowing that he would almost certainly lose.  Lenier is explaing to Delenn at the start that this is something she doesn’t understand about the position she took on.

It was a very interesting episode.

There are Star Trek episodes that are as good as the best B5 episodes but there are 700 of them.  B5 is more consistently good than Trek.

Neroon ends up dying to save Delenn in a later episode as a result of one of her Machiavellian schemes.

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Posted: 24 August 2007 03:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Oh, the Minbari are a Babylon 5 creation.  Since I gave up on B5 after watching about three episodes of glistening cylons with metallic voices when it first came out many years ago, I know nothing about the story line or characters.

Occam

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Posted: 24 August 2007 07:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Since I gave up on B5 after watching about three episodes of glistening cylons with metallic voices

No Cylons in B5.  That’s Battlestar Galactica.

I saw the pilot and ignored it since then.  I keep running across people on the net saying it’s good but still haven’t tried it.  It makes no sense to me that AI beings with FTL ships would give a damn about humans in a galaxy this big.  I need a more complicated basis for a storyline.

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Posted: 25 August 2007 12:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Sorry, I put them in the same class (far below any of the Startrek series) so I confused them.

Occam

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Posted: 26 August 2007 12:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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ROFL

Now them’s fighting words.

DS9 was the best of the Treks because is was stolen from the creator of Babylon 5.

Die-hard Trek fans spent the next seven years after Babylon 5’s debut accusing Babylon 5 of having ripped off Deep Space 9, while Star Trek convention hosts urged Trek fans to “get” Babylon 5 fans. Yes, there are very strong similarities between B5 and DS9. But it’s because Paramount stole the idea from Babylon 5, not because Warner Bros. stole the idea from Deep Space 9.

http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue229/letters.html

Similarities between Babylon 5 and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
Comparisons between the science fiction television series Babylon 5 (B5) and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine (DS9) are natural because they were contemporary programs in the same genre and shared certain plot points in their development. There are also allegations that DS9 was created by Paramount after Paramount executives were shown the story outline for the entire B5 series (the “bible”) and passed on the series.

http://en.allexperts.com/e/s/si/similarities_between_babylon_5_and_star_trek:_deep_space_nine.htm

1989 June/July     Babylon 5 submitted/pitched to Paramount.
1989 December     Babylon 5 receives additional pledge of support from
              Warner Bros., which begins working with CCT to form fifth
              network at same time.
1991 November     Babylon 5 announced as one of three flagship projects for
              Warners’ Prime Time Entertainment Network (PTEN). The
              trades carry the story extensively.
1992 June/July     Casting for the pilot movie.
1992 August 10     Filming on the pilot movie begins.
1992 Sept. 4     Filming ends on the pilot movie.

http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/making/history.html

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Posted: 26 August 2007 02:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Sorry.  While I enjoyed them, I ranked DS9 and Enterprise far below 1. TNG, 2. Voyager and TOS, tied.

Occam

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Posted: 26 August 2007 10:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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I don’t know, but I put TNG and B5 as a tie for #1.  TOS second, Voyager third and DS9 last.  Now that ENT I don’t even consider it Trek.  It a bit too much like our time only with Vulcans and alike thrown in for good major to say it is futuristic.  rolleyes  I see very little of Gene in ENT, which is a shame.  Oh a bit of trivia here:  How many are aware that Majel Barrett Roddenberry made a guest appearance on B5 to show there is no annomosity to B5 writers with all the similarities?  The woman was as wonderful as usual.  :D

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 26 August 2007 12:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Majel Barrett Roddenberry made a guest appearance on B5 to show there is no annomosity to B5 writers with all the similarities?

On what do you base that interpretation of her motives?  She wouldn’t have had anything to do with Paramount ripping off JMS, she may not even have known, they certainly wouldn’t have advertised it even among Star Trek insiders.  B5 was written almost entirely by JMS.

My ranking would be:

B5 #1
DS9 #2
TNG #3
TOS & Voyager #4
Ent #5

The original pilot, “The Cage”, showed that TOS could have been even better if Roddenberry hadn’t been messed around with by the powers that be.  They even changed the sequence in which the shows aired by showing the salt monster episode first instead of the second pilot.

There is no need to apologize.  DS9 and TNG are so different it is a matter of taste really, not the quality of the shows that determines individual preferences.  The Federation had this goody two shoes, butter won’t melt in its mouth quality that sometimes made me want to puke.  I think too much idealism is just plain stupid.

The “Pegasus” episode where Picard turned off the phased cloaking device and let the Romulans know about the technology was when I wanted to shoot Picard in the head.  Picard had to know the Romulans had been working on a phased cloak from “The Next Phase” episode.  It is as though the Picard in the “Starship Mine” and “Gambit” episodes were another person from “Pegasus”.  I presume this is an inevitable result of having lots of different writers.  The DS9 episode “In the Pale Moonlight” epitomizes the difference between DS9 and TNG.  Plain and simple Garak was my favorite character.

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Posted: 26 August 2007 12:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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I based it on what she said in an interview.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 26 August 2007 05:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Mriana - 26 August 2007 12:58 PM

I based it on what she said in an interview.

Did she say B5 was a rip off of DS9?  Do you know if this interview is on YouTube?

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