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Babylon 5/Star Trek and Serious Sci-Fi about the Shape of Things to Come
Posted: 13 December 2008 11:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 166 ]
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macgyver - 11 December 2008 09:04 PM

I wonder what the Borg are like in the Mirror Universe. Are they just a bunch of touchy, feely,  hippies who politely ask you to join their collective and sulk off if you say no? That would really take all the fun out of them.

That is the advantage of what I’m talking about.  It gives the creators a nearly blank slate.  In the Mirror Universe episodes of DS9 they didn’t even know about the worm hole but there was an Odo that Bashir killed.  So a hole ‘nuther quadrant of the galaxy could be different.  Maybe the Star Fleet ships could form an alliance with changelings that weren’t interested in ruling solids.  That is the nice thing about sci-fi.  Lots of possibilities if you can escape the Star Trek straight jacket.

Boldly reflect where no Mirrorverse has reflected before.  LOL

Trek culture needs to be dragged out of the Trek rut.

Trek actors did roles in B5, why can’t Trekkies Trek into the future.  No give me more of the same old Next Generation.  Star Trek: Regeneration.

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Posted: 17 December 2008 10:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 167 ]
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Not being a Trekkie, I think you’re missing the point, Psikey.  In the Star Trek forum I belong to, we had a thread where we suggested all kinds of scenarios for a new Star Trek series.  Some I liked, some I didn’t like, but the common denominator in all the ones I liked was the Federation.  I’m not necessarily talking about Starfleet or a set of rigid “namby-pamby” regulations.  I’m talking about the unifying, humanistic principles that the Federation stood for.  That’s what makes it Star Trek to me.  That’s why I don’t like Mirror Universe stories at all.  (And BTW that might be the reason “Enterprise” always ends up at the bottom of Which is your Favorite Series polls among Trekkies.)

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Posted: 17 December 2008 01:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 168 ]
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And BTW that might be the reason “Enterprise” always ends up at the bottom of Which is your Favorite Series polls among Trekkies.

Has anyone ever done a study of how many people who have watched Star Trek a lot do not consider themselves to be Trekkies or Trekkers?  Who says their opinion is the only one that matters?  What if the Trekkies/Trekkers are only 1/3rd of the audience.  Then a SUCCESSFUL series could still be created even if a significant percentage of Trekkies don’t LOVE it.  It is not like Star Trek is their property.  Paramount is in it for the money.

Any idea how to email Rick Berman?

psik

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Posted: 19 December 2008 04:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 169 ]
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Sorry I wasn’t around yesterday and sorry to bring a bummer to this thread, but it seemed the most appropriate place to tell others here who are fans.  Someone I really cared about died yesterday http://www.roddenberry.com  Many of us have sent Rod our condolences on the site.  :(  She will be sorely missed.

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Posted: 19 December 2008 08:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 170 ]
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Mriana - 19 December 2008 04:10 AM

Sorry I wasn’t around yesterday and sorry to bring a bummer to this thread, but it seemed the most appropriate place to tell others here who are fans.  Someone I really cared about died yesterday http://www.roddenberry.com  Many of us have sent Rod our condolences on the site.  :(  She will be sorely missed.

Gosh, Mriana, that’s horrible news.  I think you’ve inadvertently ruined my whole day.  Majel was a major connection between the original and the Next Generation!

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Posted: 19 December 2008 08:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 171 ]
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Yes, very sad news Mriana.

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Posted: 19 December 2008 08:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 172 ]
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psikeyhackr - 17 December 2008 01:15 PM

Has anyone ever done a study of how many people who have watched Star Trek a lot do not consider themselves to be Trekkies or Trekkers?  Who says their opinion is the only one that matters?

I think you’ve gone off on the wrong track, here.  I’m just giving you MY opinion.  Sure, in the interests of chasing the almighty dollar, Paramount could (and probably WILL) run off in all kinds of different directions, making spin offs like crazy—Pretty much the way DC Comics is doing with Batman; they keep making movies as long as people pay to see them and who cares if they contradict one another?

But to me, if it doesn’t follow the Star Trek philosophy, it won’t be Star Trek.

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Posted: 19 December 2008 08:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 173 ]
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Next you’ll be saying that “Muppet Babies” wasn’t canon.

I wonder if I can find my college paper “Religion in Star Trek: Atheist Weltanschauung or Theistic Conspiracy?”  I’d have to scan it.

Nowadays, it’d be more interesting to me to compare the fan experience to religious culture.  Some trekkies truly went off the deep end, as some sf/f/SCA people still do now.

There was even a sort of pilgrimage mecca, The Star Trek Experience (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_trek_experience ), with a theme wedding chapel.  It closed two months ago thanks to “declining admissions,” the fanboy equivalent of growing secularity.

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Posted: 19 December 2008 10:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 174 ]
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advocatus - 19 December 2008 08:17 AM
Mriana - 19 December 2008 04:10 AM

Sorry I wasn’t around yesterday and sorry to bring a bummer to this thread, but it seemed the most appropriate place to tell others here who are fans.  Someone I really cared about died yesterday http://www.roddenberry.com  Many of us have sent Rod our condolences on the site.  :(  She will be sorely missed.

Gosh, Mriana, that’s horrible news.  I think you’ve inadvertently ruined my whole day.  Majel was a major connection between the original and the Next Generation!

I’m sorry.  I was pretty bummed out and in tears the rest of the day myself.  It was my night off and I was running errans.  When I got back, I was talking to my bf and saw over 200 emails about Majel.  I had a bad feeling and just knew, but I asked her, “What’s happened to Majel?”  My bf told me and was sorry she was the one who told me, but I said, “Better to hear from you than from a cold email.”  She was like a mother to me, even though I didn’t know her personally.  She was like a mother to many people.  She’ll be sorely missed by many.

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Posted: 20 December 2008 03:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 175 ]
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713px-Number_One.jpg

RIP

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Posted: 22 December 2008 07:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 176 ]
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josh_karpf - 19 December 2008 08:53 AM

Nowadays, it’d be more interesting to me to compare the fan experience to religious culture.  Some trekkies truly went off the deep end, as some sf/f/SCA people still do now.

That may be true, Josh, but it has no relevance to what I’m talking about.  Simply put, there was a REASON that Star Trek appealed to so many people, over and above just being a nice space opera with phasers, warp drives and transporters (you can find that sort of thing anywhere, as I tried to point out with my Star Wars and Battlestar references).  For me personally, the big thing I like most about Star Trek is that it posits a Federation culture where I would want to live!  Paramount can make whatever movie they want, but if that culture is missing, then it won’t be Star Trek to me.  That’s all I’m sayinig.

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Posted: 22 December 2008 08:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 177 ]
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advocatus - 22 December 2008 07:25 AM
josh_karpf - 19 December 2008 08:53 AM

Nowadays, it’d be more interesting to me to compare the fan experience to religious culture.  Some trekkies truly went off the deep end, as some sf/f/SCA people still do now.

That may be true, Josh, but it has no relevance to what I’m talking about.  Simply put, there was a REASON that Star Trek appealed to so many people, over and above just being a nice space opera with phasers, warp drives and transporters (you can find that sort of thing anywhere, as I tried to point out with my Star Wars and Battlestar references).  For me personally, the big thing I like most about Star Trek is that it posits a Federation culture where I would want to live!  Paramount can make whatever movie they want, but if that culture is missing, then it won’t be Star Trek to me.  That’s all I’m sayinig.

Well maybe your analysis of Star Trek isn’t deep enough.

I consider comparing Star Wars to Star Trek to be an insult to all of science fiction.  Star Wars is just a hands breadth above Harry Potter.  I watched the pilot of the new Battlestar Gallictac and haven’t watched a single episode since then.  I kind of doubt that you know what I mean by good SCIENCE FICTION.  Worthwhile SF has to have significant intellectual depth and involve technology in a meaningful way and show its effects on society.  The whole idea from BG that intelligent machines would want to wipe out the human race when they have FTL drive giving them access to most of the galaxy is TOTALLY ABSURD.  It is nothing but a shallow plot device to create conflict and justify a series.

Three Federation crews stuck in the Mirrorverse could be just as Trekish as Janeway in the Delta quadrant but it would be sufficiently far outside the normal Trek canon that it could escape the boring repetitive plots.  That is what DS9 did.  Voyager and Enterprise were somewhat of a step backwards but there were worthwhile episodes in both of them.

I found this by Isaac Assimov from before Star Trek.

November 19, 1961
Fact Catches Up With Fiction
By ISAAC ASIMOV

Twenty-five years ago, space flight was virtually the exclusive property of a small group of young men, most of them in their teens, who wrote and read science fiction. The outside world was largely unaware that these men, or science fiction, or even the concept of space flight, existed. Among those who did know of this field of literary endeavor, reaction varied from amused tolerance to annoyed contempt. “Escapism,” they said.

Yes, it was escapism. It was escape from the problems of the Nineteen Thirties, the threat of fascism and of war, the thought of what aerial bombardment might do to cities. But it was escape into the harder world of the Nineteen Sixties. The young authors wrote—and a few people read— of the danger of nuclear warfare and of the struggle to achieve space flight. If the authors were escaping from one horrid reality, they were doing so by facing future hazard without blinkers. That is not classical escapism. It might even be called foresight.

Now the world has entered the age into which science-fiction authors “escaped” a generation ago. The front pages of the newspapers read like some of the highly imaginative stories of the Thirties. The President of the United States can call for concerted effort to place a man on the moon and be greeted with a soberly enthusiastic response.

But science fiction suffers a malady no other branch of literature does. Each year sees possible plots destroyed.

http://www.nytimes.com/books/97/03/23/lifetimes/asi-v-fact.html?_r=2

It may ask you to register with the NYT to see all of it.

We are currently living in a sci-fi society and to a far greater extent than in 1961 the technology has come down to the level of confronting the average person.  I started reading science fiction when I was 9.  I truly can’t even imagine my reaction if someone could have given me an ASUS Eee 900 when I was 9.  But I tried searching for a website explaining that a generator would get harder to turn as electric power was drawn from it and gave up after looking at 30 sites and referred the person to page 154 of a book I have.  That book is downloadable but I doubt that it is legal.  The tech enables us to alter the distribution of knowledge of the world but this is a potential threat to the economics of our educational system.  We could have created a national recommended reading list decades ago but when have you ever heard anyone suggest such a thing?  Sci-fi is about what people may do with technology and the stupid conflicts that get in the way of what we are capable of.  How do we start creating the Federation instead of just watching it on Star Trek?

It has occurred to me on many occasions since the original Mirror, Mirror episode in TOS that this world is so screwed up that we are in the Mirror Universe.  My avatar is no accident.  I was one of those, no doubt, thousands of kids that got nick named Mr. Spock in high school.

psik

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Posted: 29 December 2008 08:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 178 ]
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psikeyhackr - 22 December 2008 08:04 AM

I kind of doubt that you know what I mean by good SCIENCE FICTION.

Psik, I grew up reading Isaac Asimov, and I don’t need a lecture from the likes of you about what Science Fiction means.  But I don’t see what that has to do with the point I was trying to make.  I’m going to try one last time.  Obviously the comparisons I made earlier didn’t sink in, so I’ll try with something that’s NOT science fiction and maybe you’ll get the point.  Say Dick Wolfe started a new “Law & Order” spinoff, only this time following the adventures of two New York City detectives who’ve retired and are trying to run a Chinese restaurant in Hong Kong, despite speaking not a word of Chinese.  Now, depending on the quality of the writing, that might be an interesting series, but it wouldn’t be “Law & Order”.  Does that make my point better?

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Posted: 03 February 2009 08:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 179 ]
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psikeyhackr - 22 December 2008 08:04 AM

I consider comparing Star Wars to Star Trek to be an insult to all of science fiction.  Star Wars is just a hands breadth above Harry Potter.

Personally I think that’s your loss ... I think Star Wars is the very definition of science fiction (space opera).

psikeyhackr - 22 December 2008 08:04 AM

I watched the pilot of the new Battlestar Gallictac and haven’t watched a single episode since then.

And yet others (me included) consider it one of the best TV science fiction series we’ve ever had the pleasure to watch.

psikeyhackr - 22 December 2008 08:04 AM

I kind of doubt that you know what I mean by good SCIENCE FICTION.  Worthwhile SF has to have significant intellectual depth and involve technology in a meaningful way and show its effects on society.  The whole idea from BG that intelligent machines would want to wipe out the human race when they have FTL drive giving them access to most of the galaxy is TOTALLY ABSURD.  It is nothing but a shallow plot device to create conflict and justify a series.

If you’d actually watched the series you’d know by now that there are reasons the Cylons are behaving the way they are.

Kyu

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Posted: 03 February 2009 12:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 180 ]
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De gustibus non est disputandem—there’s no accounting for taste. Everybody has different tastes. In earlier days, I used to delight in catching scientific errors in science fiction—it made me feel like I was smart. To give you an example of just how hot I was, I remember looking at an ad for 2001: A Space Odyssey back in the late 60s. It showed a bunch of astronauts walking around in a lunar crater (was it Clavius?) with a gibbous earth in the sky overhead. I instantly knew that the geometry was all wrong, because Clavius was right at the terminator (lunar sunrise or sunset was right at Clavius). The phases of the earth as seen from the moon must be mirror images of the phases of the moon as seen from the earth, and yet Clavius is at a lunar longitude that would prevent the terminator from being on it while the moon is in a crescent phase. Golly gee, aren’t I smart!

After I matured a bit, I realized a more important truth: IT’S JUST A STORY! It’s not supposed to be a treatise on the phases of the earth as seen from the moon. Putting the earth in the sky added to the dramatic impact of the image—AND THAT’S ALL THAT MATTERS! Yes, if something is obviously incorrect, it destroys the illusion of the fiction, but so long as you stay within general bounds of plausibility, it really doesn’t have to be scientifically correct.

FTL drive is physically impossible, yet that doesn’t stop us from having great science fiction that relies on the assumption of FTL drive. And science fiction is not supposed to predict the future, it’s supposed to reveal the present by viewing it through an interesting prism. And in fact, science fiction does a terrible job of predicting the future.

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