Yeah, Spock was an Uncle Tom Tom alien like Tonto with The Lone Ranger and Kato with the Green Hornet.

Ohhhh, he was a bit more then that. More like the outsider looking in who could make observations about human culture and history that the producers of the show might not have got away with otherwise. It actually worked very well. I’m minded of a quote from “The Immunity Syndrome” where Spock told McCoy:

“You find it easier to understand the death of one than the death of a million. You speak about the objective hardness of the Vulcan heart, yet how little room there seems to be in yours.”

Zing.

Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon - 20 March 2011 08:08 PM

Yeah, Spock was an Uncle Tom Tom alien like Tonto with The Lone Ranger and Kato with the Green Hornet.

Ohhhh, he was a bit more then that. More like the outsider looking in who could make observations about human culture and history that the producers of the show might not have got away with otherwise. It actually worked very well. I’m minded of a quote from “The Immunity Syndrome” where Spock told McCoy:

“You find it easier to understand the death of one than the death of a million. You speak about the objective hardness of the Vulcan heart, yet how little room there seems to be in yours.”

Zing.

I said:

But the entire concept of the Vulcan culture presents an interesting paradigm.

Spock was supposed to be a product of that culture.

The “man fro Mars” view of humanity was something quite common in the more intellectual sci-fi literature of the 50s and early 60s but not so much in TV and movies.

psik

Spock was supposed to be a product of that culture.

Fair enough, but what makes you think the guy was an Uncle Tom? Chalk it up to differing perspectives but I just don’t see it that way.

Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon - 22 March 2011 12:24 AM

Spock was supposed to be a product of that culture.

Fair enough, but what makes you think the guy was an Uncle Tom? Chalk it up to differing perspectives but I just don’t see it that way.

Uncle Tom Tom

Because Kirk was the Lone Ranger in outer space.  With a libido of course since it was the 60s.

Television gives Americans the images it thinks we want to see.  Or has psychologically conditioned us to expect.  That is the funny thing about the first Star Trek pilot The Cage.  Roddenberry wanted more sophisticated stuff but the studios would not let him do it.  Actually the studios wanted to get rid of Spock.  He eliminated that uppity woman officer instead. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_One_(Star_Trek)

Not happy with his supporting roles in the United States., Lee returned to Hong Kong. Unaware that The Green Hornet had been played to success in Hong Kong and was unofficially referred to as “The Kato Show”, he was surprised to be recognised on the street as the star of the show.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Lee

Let us say not everyone looks at reality through the same eyes as the dominant culture.

psik

You guys are arguing over Spock.  Nerds!

Spock is cool, but Scotty is sexier.  :D At least my mother and I thought so.  It was his accent.

Dead Monky - 25 March 2011 05:24 PM

You guys are arguing over Spock.  Nerds!

No, we are arguing over the media and culture and the perspective of reality promoted by the media.

What did the roles of Tonto and Kato tell people?

Look at what is being said about the movie Avatar.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/10/avatar-critics-see-racist-theme_n_418155.html

Dances with Smurfs in Fern Gully in Outer Space.  HA

That is why Mirror, Mirror is so cool with Spock telling Kirk he has orders to kill Kirk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQQibnZwqF4

Yeah, go for it. 

My Avatar is the Mirror Spock not the wimpy on. 

What is the effect of the spread of American television programs WORLD WIDE?  Isn’t Star Trek a part of global culture now?

psik

Yup.  Nerds.

Methinks we may be taking this thread a bit too seriously. Claims to the contrary notwithstanding, I don’t see Spock as an Uncle Tom character as much as I see him as the guy who offers the outside commentary on humanity, and he was…in my opinion…pretty effective at that.

Obviously, some differ but that’s allright. In the end, it’s only a show.

Mriana - 25 March 2011 05:36 PM

Spock is cool, but Scotty is sexier.  :D At least my mother and I thought so.  It was his accent.

Young Scotty, not older Scotty (like Elvis) I presume. 

traveler - 26 March 2011 07:53 AM

Mriana - 25 March 2011 05:36 PM

Spock is cool, but Scotty is sexier.  :D At least my mother and I thought so.  It was his accent.

Young Scotty, not older Scotty (like Elvis) I presume. 

In TOS, not the movie.  She’s not seen a movie or TV show in years and never saw older Scotty either.  Older Scotty was like a looking-daddy figure to me.

Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon - 25 March 2011 11:18 PM

Obviously, some differ but that’s allright. In the end, it’s only a show.

And so were The Lone Ranger and The Green Hornet.

But some people refuse to look at the psychology of the culture that created them and the psychologies they perpetuate.  What does it say about THE CULTURE that Roddenberry had to get rid of a woman 1st officer from The Cage pilot?  The TV programs and the literature is culturally interactive.  It is a product of the culture and it perpetuates the culture.  But it also changes the culture. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lThvEsP5-9Y

Why was such a big deal made about that if it was JUST A TV SHOW?

In 1968, amid a storm of racial controversy, my father watched William Shatner and Nichelle Nichols share a kiss onscreen that made headlines. When I was young, I watched that same kiss without thinking twice.

http://www.seetreklove.com/blog/

Try to find Killer Thing by Kate Wilhelm.

I started and titled this thread because GOOD science fiction is more than just entertainment.  Science and technology change society and people have to make decisions about those changes.  But of course there is more going on in society than just science and technology.  Of course stuff that is TOO CONTROVERSIAL tends to disappear fast.

psik

Right, psik! And GOOD science fiction is NOT all that paranormal crap that SYFY and other once awesome channels are now broadcasting! Like you, I love GOOD sci fi.

What does it say about THE CULTURE that Roddenberry had to get rid of a woman 1st officer from The Cage pilot?

It tells me that the culture was pretty jacked that NBC could tell him to do this and make it stick. Mr. Roddenberry had a choice to make.

a) Insist on doing it his way and they don’t pick up the show (And he loses his soapbox) or,

b) Do as he was asked and at least have his soapbox.

He went for option (b) and got his soapbox.

SO THE THREAD HAS PASSED 30,000 VIEWS.  30,071 in fact!

I don’t know why it is so high.  Mostly lurkers though.

I have finally written a review of what I think is the best Bujold book.

http://www.lunch.com/reviews/d/UserReview-Komarr-1666171-204768-Best_of_SF_series_by_L_M_Bujold.html

A lot of problems have arisen in the world because people don’t have the right attitude about science.  Actually lots of science fiction perpetuates the wrong attitude about science.  Bujold’s father was an engineer and apparently she got saturated with sci-fi as a kid.  But I think her stuff has the right attitude.

The political aspect of our global warming problem is an example of faulty attitudes about science.  I am not sure our schools that supposedly teach science are really solving the problem.  They usually act as though everybody isn’t supposed to know it and that it is reserved for an elite so they pretend it is more difficult than it actually is.  I wonder what a planet full of Vulcans would have been doing about global warming by 2000. 

I picked Komarr as the best book because of the physics and technology described in the plot.

Her entire Vorkosigan series is available for free on the net if you can handle e-reading.

http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/24-CryoburnCD/CryoburnCD/index.htm

I did a mini-review of the series also.

http://www.lunch.com/reviews/d/UserReview-Vorkosigan_Saga-1436309-17529-Review_of_Vorkosigan_series_by_Lois_McMaster.html

Komarr centers on an incident which could easily be compared to 9/11.  Good thing that it was written before that nonsense.  Ye Olde Newtonian Physics!

psik