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Immaculate Conception
Posted: 21 July 2007 08:58 PM   [ Ignore ]
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I just learned something very interesting. I was watching one of Hitchens’s speeches where he said that he had to correct a catholic priest on Fox news – whom he was debating – after the priest told Hitchens that he believed in Immaculate Conception: that Jesus was born from a virgin. The funny thing is, that’s not what Immaculate Conception means.

Look:

“The Immaculate Conception is, according to Roman Catholic dogma, the conception of Mary, the mother of Jesus without any stain of original sin, in her mother’s womb: the dogma thus says that, from the first moment of her existence, she was preserved by God from the lack of sanctifying grace that afflicts mankind, and that she was instead filled with divine grace. It is further believed that she lived a life completely free from sin. Her immaculate conception in the womb of her mother, by sexual intercourse, should not be confused with the doctrine of the virginal conception of her son Jesus.” (Wikipedia)

Did you know this? I had no idea! big surprise Go, have fun, test your catholic friends. wink

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Posted: 21 July 2007 09:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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George - 21 July 2007 08:58 PM

Did you know this? I had no idea! big surprise Go, have fun, test your catholic friends. wink

Yes, despite rather than because of being brought up in a catholic family and attending a catholic primary school and having to attend mass until the age of 16.  I heard it elsewhere.

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Posted: 21 July 2007 09:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Last year I saw a young woman with two small children in tow putting something on the windshields of cars in a market parking lot.  I took the booklet off of my windshield and drove away.  Later I read it and it was a little comic book with a story about how, no matter how good the person was, if he hadn’t accepted Jesus as his personal savior, he was doomed to spend eternity in hell.  It was published by a local Baptist church.  I was annoyed so I sat down and wrote a short story called, “Virgin Birth.”  I carried it in my car for a year hoping to see her van again so I could put it on HER windshield.  If I can find it, I’ll post it in the Off Topic section.

Occam

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Posted: 23 July 2007 10:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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And december 8th is the day for that conception. Here is hollyday, which is good because it’s the begining of the summer.

Of course, in the catholic country I live in, almot noone could tell if the virgen mary pregancy lasted for more than 12 month or it refers to other thing.

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Posted: 23 July 2007 02:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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The virgin Mary is also astrotheological in that she also symbolizes Virgo/Venus.  Venus is of course being the bright “star” we see around the Winter Solitice/Christmas every year.  Of course you won’t find that in the Catholic Encyclopedia.  It’s something the Church has tried to bury, unsuccessfully.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 24 July 2007 08:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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I thought it was that catch Franco Harris made in the 1972 playoffs against the Oakland Raiders…

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Posted: 24 July 2007 12:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Venus was Afrodita for the greeks?. I can’t remember exactly.

If it was the case, the virgin Mary roots were far from virgin.  ( I think I could become devote of Afrodita smile ).

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Posted: 24 July 2007 01:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Well there are many virgin “Mary” motifs in pre-Christian history (Pagan), but they are all astrotheological in origins.  The senerio took place up in the Heavens (space) until humans personified it.  Thus, if I can state this right without my resources, the “saviour” infant (Sun) is born around Dec. 25 (Winter Soltice) by a virgin (Virgo).  To get a better idea of it online you can go to Acharya’s site- http://www.truthbeknown.com  She is one source that has this conclusion to the various “Virgin” birth stories of antiquity and modern religions.  I don’t know of other online sites currently that talk about it.  Earl Doherty MIGHT have it on his site.  I haven’t searched it well enough to know if he has it or not (not even sure if he talks about it in his book, yet).  Bob Price has mentioned it a few times on his show “Bible Geek” and other podcasts, but it’s not on his site as far as I know.  There are more astrotheological symbolism in the story, but that is for starters.

And no, they didn’t have to be a Virgin to have a “virgin” birth.  One had all the god’s children and was still a virgin.  rolleyes  Actually, this was done because the event repeats every year- thus, she could have a new god/human baby every year and still be a “virgin” because it is all allegorical.  Make sense?

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 29 July 2007 10:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Did you know this? I had no idea! big surprise Go, have fun, test your catholic friends. wink

Yes, I did. It has been one of my favorite trivia questions for years. Only 1% of Catholics get it right. What is even more interesting is that it entered the Catholic dogma in the mid 1800’s. It seems the Pope could not get around the fact that Jesus was born by a woman who had original sin. Therefore, magically she must have been immaculately conceived.

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Free at last from religion after 50 years. :grin:

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Posted: 03 August 2007 02:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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tongue wink I wonder if Catholics use virgin olive oil? The story of Mary being so pure and without sin is why the Catholics worship her over Jesus, but that was not God’s purpose for her to get all of the glory and the son to come in second. But then everything in the Catholic church is off center with the Christian religion and the Catholic church no matter how you cut it is not a Christian church.

But I am neither a Catholic or a theist, but a former theist who had been brainwashed as a child not questioning it until I was grown and had many questions and no answers. My first wife was a Catholic and believed Mary was pure and without sin and thought she came down from heaven to be Jesus’s mother and went back to heaven on angel’s wings. Ah what a fairy tale.
It smacks of Lord of the Rings.

The Catholics love anything virgin so I suspect they use virgin olive oil as well.

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In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holely Goat I bring the truth

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Posted: 07 December 2007 09:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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This makes me wonder about Mary’s Mother.  Did she have imaculate, imaculate conception?  What about her mom…?  What came first, the immaculate conception or the egg?

Either way God’s a chicken.  LOL

[ Edited: 07 December 2007 09:26 AM by retrospy ]
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Posted: 07 December 2007 09:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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It’s funny because I never even thought about the word ‘immaculate’ in this case, even though I was brought up a Catholic. The words just kind of went together. But, basically they felt they had a mess on their hands and they needed to clean it up. Dirty sexy sex. I read the bible for the soft porn anyway, the real kinky shit.

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Posted: 07 December 2007 10:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Soft porn, eh? In the Bible itself, sex is quite commonly used. Many times to simply describe sexual events, in other places - as an allegory. The author of chapter 16 in Ezekiel, wrote about Jerusalem and the people of Judea, but undoubtedly had some specific pictures in his mind. I’ll perform a nasty exercise here, and abuse the original text by stripping it of all non-sexual stuff. Here is what we’re left with:

“... And thou didst increase and grow up, and thou camest to excellent beauty: thy breasts were fashioned, and thy hair was grown; yet thou wast naked and bare. Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, and, behold, thy time was the time of love, I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness … and I anointed thee with oil … But thou didst trust in thy beauty and play the harlot because of thy renown, and didst pour out thy harlotries on every one that passed by; his it was. And thou didst take of thy garments, and didst make for thee high places decked with divers colors, and didst play the harlot upon them … and didst play the harlot with them … And in all thine abominations and thy harlotries thou hast not remembered the days of thy youth, when thou wast naked and bare … Thou hast built thy lofty place at every head of the way, and hast made thy beauty an abomination, and hast opened thy feet to every one that passed by, and multiplied thy harlotries … thou hast played the harlot with them, and yet thou wast not satisfied … and yet thou didst not have enough herewith … the work of a wanton harlot … but thou hast given thy gifts to all thy lovers, and hast bribed them to come unto thee from every side in thy harlotries … thy filthiness was poured out, and thy nakedness uncovered through thy harlotries with thy lovers … I will gather all thy lovers … and will uncover thy nakedness unto them, that they may see all thy nakedness … I will also give thee into their hand … and they shall strip thee of thy clothes … and they shall leave thee naked and bare … and execute judgments upon thee in the sight of many women … Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters ...“

Don’t blame me - I’m just quoting the Biblical prophet grin

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Posted: 07 December 2007 05:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Bud - 07 December 2007 10:20 AM

Soft porn, eh? In the Bible itself, sex is quite commonly used. Many times to simply describe sexual events, in other places - as an allegory.

Bud
http://TheTruthIsWrong.com

Don’t forget Song of Solemon.  It’s as racey as Jackie Collins.  LOL  I’ll save you quotes from it, because that whole thing is smut and I’m not willing to copy it all.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 08 December 2007 01:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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The Song of Songs is considered by some as pretty nice erotic poetry (seriously). Alas, many Orthodox Jews learn in school that the text in this case is merely a metaphor for the love between God and Israel.

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Posted: 08 December 2007 06:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Tom Katses - 29 July 2007 10:42 PM

Did you know this? I had no idea! big surprise Go, have fun, test your catholic friends. wink

Yes, I did. It has been one of my favorite trivia questions for years. Only 1% of Catholics get it right. What is even more interesting is that it entered the Catholic dogma in the mid 1800’s. It seems the Pope could not get around the fact that Jesus was born by a woman who had original sin. Therefore, magically she must have been immaculately conceived.

I didn’t realize it wasn’t known by Catholics.  Hitchens repeats this story and based on the 1% theory this is a tremendous debating tool for him—if one listens to his debates you might find him opening the subject of the Virgin Mary hoping the respondent will make a faux pas.

I also find it squirrelly that new stuff like this works its way into the Catholic religion.—

I also didn’t realize it was Dec 8 but I suppose it makes sense for it to be in the pre-Xmas season

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