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The meaning of “God”
Posted: 12 August 2007 01:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 61 ]
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Jufa,
Personal war? Get over yourself! What Doug provided was a link, so if you click on it it will lead to a definition he feels has meaning. The definition I gave is one I believe has meaning. If you decide that it does not come from my personal experience (and how the heck you could know that, I have no idea), that’s your problem. But when you persist in refusing to answer a question that doesn’t meet your standards of validity, you are being arrogant and wasting our time. If you are participating in this forum because you have something to share, then share it. If you just wish to declare invalid other people’s understanding, than you are simpoly being narcissistic and destructive. This I know from personal experience!

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Posted: 12 August 2007 02:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 62 ]
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Jufa, since you apparently didn’t understand what Doug and Brennen have been saying, I shall state it more explicitly.  When you see a word or two in blue rather than the standard black, it means that by putting your cursor (the arrow on screen) on that word and clicking your mouse button, your screen will go to the site that defines or explicates that word.  If you click on intercessionary prayer back on Doug’s post where it is in blue, you will see the accepted definition of it. 

After you read that you can get on with the “discussion”.

Occam

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Posted: 12 August 2007 04:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 63 ]
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Heheheh!  Welcome to Narwholsville, Occam.

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Posted: 12 August 2007 04:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 64 ]
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jufa - 12 August 2007 12:46 PM

To make it simple again I repeate “You strike a match, what’s fire? You can tell me about oxidation, but that doesn’t tell me a thing”.  This is exactly what you have done Dougsmith, you haven’t told me what fire is.

Fire is, roughly, rapid oxidation. If you think that doesn’t tell you what fire is, that’s simply because you don’t know (or, apparently, care) what fire is.

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Posted: 12 August 2007 08:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 65 ]
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Intercessory prayer has no coherent meaning to me. 

It is the same as headache.  It has no coherent meaning to me because I don’t get headaches.  If I said I know what a headache is, I would be lying.  If I said I know what a headache is stated to do, even if I read all the material in the world concerning a headache, I would be lying.  Why? because I have never experienced a headache.  Someone elses definition does not tell me a thing about headaches.  But you say they exist.  What exist? a headache, that’s not true, a headache doesn’t exist to me.

Occam I did click on the link when Dougsmith first presented it to me, and it told me nothing but the same thing Mckenzievmd was saying to me.  The only difference was Wikepedia gave different religious references as to what intecessory prayer was determined to be by their definition.  A definition of a word with nothing telling me this is the truth about intecessory prayer because I experience it during a healing setting, or forum, etc, etc. 

What this all boil down to is that of all the flood of words which has been undamned upon me, hehe he he.  I get the strong, very strong sense that no one here has ever expeienced prayer intecession in their lives personally.  But they want to speak to me as authoritatively through opinions, concepts, ideas, based on what religions states, and what they think — yet no one has experienced it and can tell me what it means to them personally.

How can I tell that intercessory prayer works or don’t work, or if one has experienced it personally?  By the results which intecessory prayer are suppose to bring about.  Who hear has prayed to God and changed water to wine?  Or raised a lazarus from the dead? Or fed 4 & five thousand hungry people through intecessory prayer?  Who here can tell me that have formed a prayer group who continuously prays for the homeless, the drug addict, the alcholic and seem these things come to a halt.

I’ve seen nothing resembling the results of intercessory prayer in America and nowhere else.  I have seem the prayer of greed, lust, and self-righteous religious attitudes prevail.  But I haven’t seen the fervant prayer of a righteous man change anything by supernatural means.  I wonder why?  People can’t even pray for themselves and get result, and now they want to tell me what intercessory prayer is.  Boy, I am enjoying this thread.  No one can tell me anything personally about intecessory prayer, yet they put down with authoritative vengence what it means.  Aint that something!!!

And Dougsmith, your statement that “Fire is, roughly, rapid oxidation” does not tell me what fire is.  If oxidation is fire, then I set myself on fire every time I have sex.  I wonder why I don’t become consumed and burn to a crisp?

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Posted: 12 August 2007 11:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 66 ]
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jufa - 12 August 2007 08:18 PM

And Dougsmith, your statement that “Fire is, roughly, rapid oxidation” does not tell me what fire is.  If oxidation is fire, then I set myself on fire every time I have sex.  I wonder why I don’t become consumed and burn to a crisp?

Now there’s a good question! Excellent!

The difference is the rapidity of the oxidation. When you cut open an apple, for instance, the interior flesh begins to oxidize. That oxidation turns it brown. This is precisely the same sort of process that makes fire. (As is the process when you breathe and transfer oxygen). However, the oxidation isn’t rapid enough to produce a lot of energy. For you to see a flame, what you need is a lot of energy to be released at once. This only happens when the oxidative process is particularly rapid; indeed, it has to be rapid enough to make the released gas glow. (= emit light at a particular wavelength).

For a better introduction to this than I can provide, I would suggest you click HERE and read the accompanying article.

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Posted: 13 August 2007 12:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 67 ]
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Dougsmith, you just don’t get it do you?  To to tell me about oxidation does not tell me what’s fire.  Apple is a bad explanation because you hae a property which oxidize.  Now oxidation produce a result, now that result is fire, now what’s fire.?

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Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength jufa

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Posted: 13 August 2007 01:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 68 ]
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Good afternoon to all!!!

I’d like to start today off here on this philosophy forum by stating I have posted a theme titled “There is no Logic for Existence.”  I have begun in this mannerbecause I like for all the philophers and deep thinkers to know I have posted the above post on a number of religious, general, and theist forums and dialogue has been overwhelming.  This has proven to be an ideal subject to the I. Kant followers, being Kant has stated truth did not begin until human arrived on this planet.  Yet, no response has been forth coming from the pit-bull intellects here.

I wondered why until a certain member brought to all of our attention the attitude of the “die-hard humanist.”  The “die-hard humanist” is one who need a property to be a “die-hard.”  Being there was nothing logical to display, or show, or grasp to oppose the reasoning in the thread “There is no Logic for Existence,” no responses was forth coming.

Now I said this to say that intellectual logic has been attempted to prove points of meaning and origin in this thread.  But there can be no logic applicable because with there being no logic for cause,” then there truly is no logic for effect.  But the “die-hard humanist,” and I must be fair here, the “die-hard religionist, theist, atheist no matter the label they wear, or country they dwell in insist that certain things are happening, are done, and will be done because people exist. 

But what is the reality of that which is, and will be.  It is the reality of thought interpretation.  But there is no logic to thought.  So there can be no logic to any conclusion of interpretation of thought because there is no beginning nor end of thought.  Therefore intepretation is can never be conclusive.  And to argue any meaning of conclusion is always dealing with an unconclusive fact, but not the truth.  The truth has never been revealed because there is no beginning to truth and therefore no end.

“There is no Logic to Existence,” and therefore there is no logic for any conclusion of interpretation to that within that which is not logical.  What is the logic for opposition of that which has no logic to exist?  What is the logic for opposing effect, when there is no logic for cause?  What is the purpose for intercessory prayer when the universe is “no respector of person” because “Love don’t love nobody,” for Love loves every body equally without logic, reasons, why’s, if’s because the universe and all things in it was created for??????? 

I don’t wonder any longer why the pit-bulls intellectual philosopher, religionist, theist, and atheist have stayed away from the above mentioned thread.

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Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength jufa

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Posted: 13 August 2007 04:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 69 ]
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jufa - 12 August 2007 08:18 PM

Intercessory prayer has no coherent meaning to me. 

So, all your prior posts demanding a definition of this were only a smoke screen for you to be a troll. 

I see in a subsequent post, by your own self-evaluation, you are a “deep thinker”.  I haven’t participated in the threads to which you contribute because your thinking is incoherent and semantically irrational.  I suggest you take some time to educate yourself in philosophy, logic and critical thinking.

Occam

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Posted: 13 August 2007 05:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 70 ]
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jufa, I cannot speak for others, but speaking for myself your topic-opener on logic and existence was so far removed from the subject matter that would generally be discussed here, and so full of assumptions that are not commonly held within this group that I did not think it worth commenting on. I remind you that each person is at a unique place in what you and I might call the spiritual journey, and that many deny being on a spiritual journey at all. If you really want to discuss subjects like this, you’ll have to be more precise than you have been to date. That’s my surmise.

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I cannot in good conscience support CFI under the current leadership. I am here in dissent and in support of a Humanism that honors and respects everyone.

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Posted: 13 August 2007 09:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 71 ]
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Placlair

I know my themes and presentations are asking for those who do not expand their minds beyond the collective accepted knowledge to stop and review a new flavor red face This boards opposition to my putting a brand new flavor in its ear is easy.  On christian, atheist, Buddha, theist, and even new age board, they say they want to leave the dogmas behind and go where no man has gone before.  But when they see someone is not a conformist thinker concerning religion, non-religion doctrines, they will attempt to set their ass on fire.  Gangs are not only found in the ghetto’s where black people live.  Look how those N. Carolina boy’s were ganged here recently.

I have been a rebel all my life.  A maverick who stands up, and if necessary, take the bullet to prove that the only true reality I have and give freely is my word.  I have nothing else to give.  And if I fail to stand on my word of conviction, I have failed myself, and I have failed mankind.  I am a reflection of the whole regardless.  I put what I am out there.  No one has to agree with me.  They can reject me a 1,000 times.  But no one can tell me I am wrong or right, as I cannot say the same about what I say nor others.  Nothing can be proven right or wrong in this life.  All that can happen in a persons life to relate to relativity. That which comes into the human mind become illusionary because it makes one believe all is not Spirit. But Spirit has no opposition. There is no power to oppose the rhymatic Breath of the Law of Divine Consciousness. The illusion is the illusion there is another power other than the power of one’s will that is influential upon a man’s Spirit.   

Of all the bickering between religion, philosophy, atheism, science, and theism nothing can change the structure of creation. And with nothing being able to change creation’s structure, nothing can change creation’s laws of intent, nor Spirit manifestation. The human thought changes nothing. All the prayers, begging, pleading, tithing, and different attitudes of worship has not made a change in the world, and has not made a change in the mentality of man. Why? because there is nothing to overcome but man.

Man is the only sacrifice which is needed to nullifiy any and all illusions which makes the illusionary belief real. And man is his thoughts.  Man’s thoughts are the children he raise to content with the conditions of the illusion. And believing his thoughts have the power to make a difference is the deception of the illusion.

So men can continue to believe they are the Atlas’ of the world.  Standing and defending every cause but the direct cause which affect them and their immediate family, friends, and conditions of living as you have.  And so the world will continue as it has every since man realized that the same thoughts which can change the world for better, are the same thoughts which will continue to divide the house of mankind.

[ Edited: 13 August 2007 09:46 PM by jufa ]
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Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength jufa

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Posted: 13 August 2007 10:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 72 ]
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jufa, you remind me of myself. Like you, I’ve gotten in trouble for years challenging dogmas, including the dogmas of humanists, non-theists, etc.

Still, you’re missing the key point I was trying to make to you. Your writing is at best confusing and makes too many assumptions. Speaking as one who welcomes door- and mind-opening within communities of this kind, you’re never going to get to that point until you tighten up the intellectual aspect of your approach considerably.

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Posted: 14 August 2007 02:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 73 ]
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PlaClair, I understood what you were saying.  I’m not attempting to get a point across.  Just want to make people ask themselves what did I do for others today? for ” there will be a day, the question won’t be, ‘How many awards did you get in life?’ Not that day.  It won’t be, ‘How popular were you in your social setting?’ That won’t be the question that day.  It will not ask how many degrees you’ve been able to get.  The question that day will not be concerned with whether you are a ‘Ph.D.’ or a ‘no D.’  It will not be concerned with whether you went to Harvard, Morehouse or whether you went to ‘No House.’  The question that day will not be, ‘How beautiful is your house?’  The question that day will not be, ‘How much money did you accumulate? How much did you have in stocks and bonds?’ The question that day will not be, ‘What kind of automobile did you have?’  On that day the question will be, ‘What did you do for others?’ 

Now I can hear somebody saying, “Lord, I did a lot of things in life. I did my job well; the world honored me for doing my job.  I did a lot of things, Lord; I went to school and studied hard. I accumulated a lot of money, Lord; that’s what I did.” It seems as if I can hear the Lord of Life saying, ‘But I was hungry, and ye fed me not.  I was sick, and ye visited me not. I was naked, and ye clothed me not. I was in prison, and you weren’t concerned about me. So get out of my face. What did you do for others? will be the question put to each and every man when they come to their latter day.”  And if one has done nothing for other, for the betterment of mankind, they will find themselves stuck in an earth mentality without a earthly body.  And that will be hell.

I’ve came.  I’ve spoken.  I’ve planted the seeds.

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Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength jufa

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Posted: 14 August 2007 06:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 74 ]
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How about . . .

God means everything you say it means and everything everyone else says it means?

The truth or untruth to it however, means nothing. God doesn’t have to actually exist for it to mean anything, and vice-versa.

But . . . The meaning of God is pretty meaningless and that’s what it means. Which is therefore meaningless. And so on.

I’d say that the great United States philosopher Donald Rumsfeld (of the Bush administration) has the answer to this question in the following axiom:

“Reports that say that something hasn’t happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don’t know we don’t know.”

I’m glad that I could answer this great question that people have struggled to understand for centuries, and to so with such finality, relevancy, and unquestionability.

Xoxoxo,

Delwyn

P. S. This won’t be on my resume will it?

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Posted: 14 August 2007 08:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 75 ]
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jufa, perhaps I’ve misunderstood you. The statement that “there will come a day” doesn’t help matters. To me, the time for that question is every day.

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