So you are serious then? I thought it was all a joke. Honestly. You see I am the founder of The Holy Orthodox Hitteon Church back in 1977 and that was a joke, but it seems 25,000 plus people took it as the real thing and I was not able to completely do away with it even after I announced it was a hoax, so how was I to know you were serious?

But how on earth is it you would even want a religion if you don’t believe in the supernatural? Why would you want a religion unless like you wanted to make fun of religion? Back in the mid seventies I attended the Church of Satan once with a friend and I thought at the time I understood they actually believed in Satan and believed he was the good guy and God was the bad guy. That Satan did not like how God was running things so he tried over throwing God, but God over came him instead and placed him above all evil. Except it was the other way around according to Satan; God was the evil one and Satan was the holy divine one, but God mislead the humans into believing he was the good one and Satan the bad one. Now according to the bible this I can believe since God is the one going around doing bad things while Satan seems to just sit around not bothering anyone or any thing. Any way this was what my friend told me who was a member of the Church of Satan. However at the time I was loosing my doubts about God, angels, Satan, demons and the bible and in 1977 decided to see if I could start my own religion based on witchcraft, Christianity, paganism, fantasy and made up stuff to see if perhaps other religions started the same way. It was to be an experiment. A friend said it would never work, but if I could get at least five people to believe in my new religion in one year he would give me one hundred dollars, if not I should give him one hundred dollars. I thought it was a safe bet and took him up on it. Within one year I had 100 believers, but within a month that I started I got six people and got my $100! Within 30 years the ranks had grown to 25,000 members world wide with several splinter groups broke off from it and then I announced it was a hoax and why I did it, but a third of the people did not believe me and continued with the religion and although I do not know how many Hitteons there are now I would estimate around 5,000 to upwards of 12,000 world wide. I have the Q’R'Beth manuscript and one copy of the smaller version of it that was published in 1987. And now I hear the inside dogma of the Church of Satan sounds like the Holy Orthodox Hitteon Faith, so I figured it was all a joke too or at least an experiment.

But it sounds like it may not be either, but how anyone could say they are an atheist and a believer of something supernatural (or at least naming it after a supernatural being) I just absolutely do not understand for the life of me if indeed you are really serious and you say you belong or at least believe in it.

Holely Goat - 20 August 2007 01:09 PM

I just absolutely do not understand for the life of me if indeed you are really serious and you say you belong or at least believe in it.

I don’t either, but that is why we ask questions so that maybe we can understand other’s POV. The only question that does harm, is the one not asked.

Holely Goat - 20 August 2007 10:59 AM

:tongue: Oh sorry your most high holiness Reverend Slaughter that I offended your god. My most humble apology to His Holiness.
I never realize His Most Highness was going to be offended by my remarks of his most powerful avatar god. Blessings to him oh great lord Slaughter. And may Aradia and Beleasa rain their blessing upon you. A’heil’aam. And may Thor and Zeus watch over you always. And may Baloma and Apsaras be with you always. May Hatu and Bella go with you. As I will so mote it be. A’heil’aam.

This is a bit much.  :(  I do hope Kevin forgives you and Truth, as well as sticks around here to join other conversations.

Mriana - 20 August 2007 05:44 PM

Holely Goat - 20 August 2007 10:59 AM

:tongue: Oh sorry your most high holiness Reverend Slaughter that I offended your god. My most humble apology to His Holiness.
I never realize His Most Highness was going to be offended by my remarks of his most powerful avatar god. Blessings to him oh great lord Slaughter. And may Aradia and Beleasa rain their blessing upon you. A’heil’aam. And may Thor and Zeus watch over you always. And may Baloma and Apsaras be with you always. May Hatu and Bella go with you. As I will so mote it be. A’heil’aam.

This is a bit much.  :(  I do hope Kevin forgives you and Truth, as well as sticks around here to join other conversations.

I don’t forgive them, but it doesn’t bother me that they’re stupid. I say they’re stupid, because of their statements and questions - most of which were answered either in this or the other threads about Satanism, or the actual podcast.

Truthseeker is a pest, though he’s stated he was done arguing, he’s clearly a “gotta-have-the-last-word” kind of guy. His posts are usually one liners, promotions of communism or shocked dismay and accusations of racism, Nazism, or something else without substance that makes him feel more heroic for posting attacks against.  He’ll never “leave it alone” and I can never forgive him because he will do nothing to benefit me if I did.

This other guy jumped in feet first and obviously doesn’t care about the reality of Satanism as a philosophy, only blathering on and making sarcastic remarks without real substance. It would do me no good to forgive him either, as he will certainly never be sincere in his posts in the subject, considering what he has already said.

Not once did I say I was offended by his stupid comment, all I did was list some corrections and state that I didn’t understand what he was saying, as his comments seemed to ignore previously stated concepts.

Instead of any serious discussion, he claims to be the former leader of some cult and then tell me he doesn’t understand how I could say I was a Satanist?!

What offends me is not that they attack me as much as show such poor critical thinking and such knee-jerk reactions. They won’t “get it” and don’t seem to care to.

I guess disgust would probably be a better word than “offend” to illustrate my feelings for these two fellows.

KevinISlaughter - 20 August 2007 06:27 PM

I guess disgust would probably be a better word than “offend” to illustrate my feelings for these two fellows.

I can understand that.  In fact, I can understand most of your post for that matter.  I won’t profess to understand your philosophy entirely, I do understand your feelings.

Cult? As I explained it was a hoax as an experiment to see if it were possible to start a religion based on a made up book to see if perhaps all religions may have started this same way. It was not a real religion per se but a hoax religion. But then I consider all religions as a cult and as a hoax with its inventors knowing full well that they do it as a hoax to see how far it will go.

But like I said before it makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever how anyone could actually believe in a religion and still say they are an atheist. I just can not understand that. And for your information Mr. Slaughter I have been around the block several times in my 75 years of life and I have seen and read a lot of things in my time, but your explanation of being a believer and a non-believer at the same time of religion of any kind reminds me of a friend that once told me he was a “Catholic Atheist Yogi.”
I could not understand how he could be that any more than I can understand you. And it seems you have a short fuse considering your belief in Satan by stating it as a good philosophy which further confuses me.

Now we do welcome you to these forums for a civil discussion and I am not trying to be critical, but you did come on with a bit of a mind blower by stating you were an atheist yet a member of the Church of Satan and Satan is after all an unseen unproven supernatural being rather he is in ancient fables or not. And so how would you expect another atheist to understand that sort of double talk? How would you expect some one to react but to think you were joking? How was anyone to know you were serious making such statements? I do not know your age or your education, but making such statements is confusing to say the least and I really did think you were joking and when you became so upset by my statements how else was I to react in the light of how you reacted but to use the names of other demons since Satan is considered a demon as well to millions of people world wide in many different kinds of religions. Apsaras and Baloma are suppose to be powerful demons in pagan religions.

So you may be angry at me, but you have to remember that to make such statements as you made to all of us is very unusual to say the least and anyone with any sense of the word would have a hard time taking you seriously and not think you were joking or pulling our leg to get our reaction. And to become angry makes one wonder about you further, but then to each his own. I suppose if one wanted to state they believed in mythical characters as real that would be fine as after all the majority of society teaches us starting as children to believe in myths as real and it is okay to lie and say there is a god, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, demons, angels and Satan.

Cults are hoaxs.  They are also conspiracies too.  They are designed to catch people and trap them.  Or at least keep them in it.

Holely Goat - 21 August 2007 07:32 PM

Now we do welcome you to these forums for a civil discussion and I am not trying to be critical

1. I don’t see “moderator” or “administrator” listed next to your avatar, so I’m assuming you are neither of them and therefore do not speak for the “we” of the forums.

2. Agreed, you are clearly not trying to be critical, that was obvious from every post I’ve seen from you.

If I called myself a Promethean, would you still have such a hard time understanding the idea of using a mythic being as a metaphor? How about if I called myself an “Elk” or a “Mason” (with having no experience with masonry). Am I a member of the National Rifle Association, or just my pistol. I mean, I’ve never sent my pistol to a meeting, but clearly by your literal interpretation, it’s a group of American firearms that have formed a group.

If you didn’t understand it at first, and you don’t understand it when it’s clearly and unambivalently stated “...there are no elements of devil worship in the Church of Satan.” and “There are no Gods. I am an atheist.” - WHAT MORE can I do to convince you, and why would I want to invest more time in trying to do so?!?!

“Holely Goat” - you seem to fail to understand something so simple, and are so baffled by it, but I’d asser that it is YOU that has made any number of indredulous claims about yourself. Let’s look at your bio:

“Born to an American Indian father (Navajo) and a Jewish mother (Yiddish) on the east coast and raised on a ranch out west. Was a business owner, federal peace officer (restricted information), ordained minister and cowboy in my life time. College grad, traveled the world and have been behind the Iron Curtain, Cuba and a few other out of the way places. I was married twice although I am a bisexual. I have been in the civil rights movement since the age of 12. I am an author of 52 books and have sold thousands of dollars in paintings which hang from border to border and in Europe.
I have also sold carvings, sculptures and other forms of art I have produced in my life time. My father was a federal attorney and a graduate of Georgetown, my mother a Maryland socialite. I left home at 16 riding the rails where I met my first wife. After I settled down I finished high school and went on to college where I took a degree in religious science and literature as well as world history, English, Science, Drama one, two and three, journalism and a course in writing. Civics and political science. I adopted and raised twelve children by my first wife and three children by my second.”

And in this thread you’ve claimed to have started a cult in the 70’s that still exists but yet I only see 3 references to it on the internet, and no official website that actually works?

You write frequently like English is your second language, and seem to begrudge others who have attained status on this message board:

It seems Doug joined the forum on Valentine’s Day of 2006 and now he is the administrator. Hmmm, could he have an inside with Cupid or Saint Valentine? I should have joined on Christmas of 2005 and I could be immortal now in that great dog house in the sky. But no I joined in the dog days of summer of this year and now I am just another underdog having to bow wow down before Doug that spy in the sky looking down from the great dog house and having Dog himself lick him behind the ear.

He has an obsession with this “Doug” so it seems: (http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/2770/)

I have been wondering how it is that Doug seems to be on these forums everywhere any time I come on them either in the day, at night or the wee hours of the morning seven days a week? Is Doug Smith in reality a computer by any chance or are there several Doug Smiths? If he is a human when does he sleep or eat or go to work or shop or live like anyone else?
And if there are several stand ins for him why bother checking the forum at all? And if Doug is a computer how is anyone able to program a computer to act so much like a human? I am terribly curious how Doug like God can be in so many places at once all of the time and still have a life of his own.

In fact, this was not the only post you’ve maid that failed miserably to start conversation:

http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/2837/

http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/2736/
The title of the above post is “America’s secret war of the toilet paper (which the feds won’t tell)”
Where he says:

Now I am going to try something new and fun, but I am not going to do it alone. I am going to write a very funny off the wall story and then I want everyone to add to the story.

Hah, it seems that INDEED you don’t seem to speak for the “we” of this board.

But in your own introductory thread, and your bio, you are always so vague - very similar to cold readers tricks. You’ll say you’ve written a 1,000 page book, or even more, 52 books (!) but you won’t name a single title, or names that can actually be traced. Everything about your story sounds like total BUNK, but I’m the nonsensical one, yeah, right.

Someone found the following: http://web.archive.org/web/20040321172248/www.hitteon.com/articles/Articles_of_the_Faith.html

But, no, that was written by a “splinter group”... yeah.. right.

What, not one copy of your holy book available on abebooks.com: http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=Q’R’Beth&x=34&y=10

Look I tried to apologize to you in a nice way but you are bent on making trouble and have no respect or manners your self so it is obvious to me you have no brains and are an uneducated hillybilly.

And your so bright you blind people. My 1065 page book the Q’R'Beth could not be bought on the internet as it could only be obtained by members of the faith and since most of our teachings were secret we did not advertise either them or the religion over the net. And after I announced it was a hoax it gradually disappeared off the net, but in 1999 in covered the net.

And as for Doug and my posts they were suppose to be in humor since I write mostly humor. And I do not need to advertise my books on forums since I sell quite well without advertising them myself. And if I named my books on the forum then anyone would know my real name which I keep hidden since I want my privacy. But I assure you everything I have said is true.

As for you, you are obviously a pig headed theist pretending to be an atheist to stir up trouble on an atheist site. I have tried to be nice but it is quite obvious to me you are an immature and insecure child that is still green behind the ears that has neither respect for others or yourself and I suspect a mixed up confused individual whose aim is to be negative and make trouble.

And I have every right to use the word “we” since I am a member of this forum as everyone else that belongs is.

And I am not wrapped up with Doug as it is all in fun, but then you obvious have no sense of humor yourself because my first posts about you having perhaps a loose screw seems to fit you quite well. As I think you are all bunk as it is obvious to me you are so confused you do not know your right from your left and I think you are also a bigot hating Indians and Jews since they have both been on the hate list for a long time and further it would not surprise me that you belong to some hate group.

I think you need to go out and get a job and stop living off your parents and grow up little boy.

I have seen the likes of your ilk all of my life and you are nothing but a spoiled child who thinks they are always right and everyone else is wrong. Get a life boy and grow up!

Whoa!

Kevin and Holey Goat: both of you should please try to keep an even keel here. Personal attacks and abuse are contrary to the rules of the forum.

Well, I am a mod…

Holely Goat - 22 August 2007 04:37 PM

Look I tried to apologize to you in a nice way but you are bent on making trouble and have no respect or manners your self so it is obvious to me you have no brains and are an uneducated hillybilly.

HG, I’m not so sure it was taken as an apology and further insults will not defuse the situation.  I’m not saying Kevin was right with his last response, but this fighting over philosophies will not contribute to understanding each other.

And as for Doug and my posts they were suppose to be in humor since I write mostly humor.

I’ll let Doug deal with this one how he sees fit.

As for you, you are obviously a pig headed theist pretending to be an atheist to stir up trouble on an atheist site. I have tried to be nice but it is quite obvious to me you are an immature and insecure child that is still green behind the ears that has neither respect for others or yourself and I suspect a mixed up confused individual whose aim is to be negative and make trouble.

Again this bickering back and forth with juvenile name calling isn’t going to help. 

And I have every right to use the word “we” since I am a member of this forum as everyone else that belongs is.

[color]Yes you are a member, but name calling is inappropriate.  Goating is not appropriate either, but is tolerated to an extent.[/color]

And I am not wrapped up with Doug as it is all in fun, but then you obvious have no sense of humor yourself because my first posts about you having perhaps a loose screw seems to fit you quite well. As I think you are all bunk as it is obvious to me you are so confused you do not know your right from your left and I think you are also a bigot hating Indians and Jews since they have both been on the hate list for a long time and further it would not surprise me that you belong to some hate group.

I never saw any racism in his last post or any post of his.  Sorry, but the race card doesn’t work in this case, HG and I explicitedly ask you explicitly to stop insulting Kevin:

[quote=“Holely Goat”]Either that or some one has a few loose screws needing tightening.

No offense Goat, but this is a bit offending, esp if one is on the receiving end.  I can see one of the reasons Kevin is upset, among others.  He’s not pulling your leg.  There are people who are of the religion called Satanism.  I don’t know what is and I won’t criticize it either because I don’t know what it is truly about.  I just went around with someone else who criticized and condemned Humanism a couple hours ago and they had no clue what they were talking about.  So, I can empathize with Kevin on this one.  So, would you please try to be less insulting to Kevin or at least cut down on what could be taken as offensive to him.  In other words:  Mind your P&Qs; please.

In trying to retrieve that post, I see Doug has also said something and I agree with him, this really needs to stop between the two of you, which I said earlier in the post, because it is contrary to the forum rules.  Like I said, Kevin isn’t totally blameless in this either, esp with all the accusations and alike being thrown about.  You have now been warned by both of us.

I tried to be nice but Slaughter is the one attacking me and I am only defending myself. And below is proof that the Q’R'Beth as you can see was known about even on this forum some time back. But Slaughter has ridiculed me and I should have right to defend myself. Naturally I am upset that this man has belittled me and put me down and I am therefore going to strike back but I have not called him any names and I know the rules of the forum but he should keep them as well. But I apologize if it offended you as I did not wish to offend you, but I am after all human when it comes to a young person who is way younger than most of my grand children to insult me in such a matter.

(This is from a page found on Google)

Holy Orthodox Hitteon Church And Faith
Q ‘R’ Beth · Contact Us, The Holy Orthodox Hitteon Church And Faith. A’heil’aam: We are the long forgotton Hitteons. Our purpose is to bring back the faith ...
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The Q’R’ Beth Hidden, until now, the Holy Book of the Hitteons, Secrets & truths never told ... Read the amazing & astonishing answers in the Q’ R’ Beth. ...
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I talked to the write of there Q’R'beth the other day and he is saying that the book .... That is why I want the Q’R'Beth exposed and give the reasons why ...
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and in fact the Q’R'Beth was written as a hoax just like your bible. You have been brainwashed since a child in to believing in this myth. Get a life. ...
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I’ve stayed out of this because Mriana and Doug were doing a very good job of trying to get both of you to back off of the confrontational attitudes and snide comments.  I have a much shorter fuse than either of them.  There are two solutions left as I see it.  Both of you should go to your control panels, click on Manage Ignore List and enter the name of the other.  That way, neither of you even see the posts of the other.  The second solution entails banning, and I assure you that if either of you says, “Ha, good. He needs to be banned,” you may be surprised that you are the one who is kicked off of the board. 

Occam

Note that blue text incicates official moderator posts.

Lets just drop the whole thing and change the subject as it is not worth quarreling over. I did not come on to this forum to get into an argument over anything and for now on any one that wants to start an argument I am going to just ignore them because it is not worth the effort and only activates my colitis. I like these forums and am going to become a member of CFI in 2008 as I think the whole thing is a great idea and their program has been around for many years. I came on here to discuss opinions and learn from others, not to argue or get in a heated quarrel, so I am willing to drop the subject and stay completely away from Mr. Slaughter rather he bothers me or not is up to him because there are better subjects at hand on these forums than to nit pick with him.

I just put Mr. Slaughter on my ignore list so he is history to me and I won’t have to read anymore of his posts so I can move on to other things.