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How to start your own religion
Posted: 14 September 2007 10:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 46 ]
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How do you know that the founders of the other religions did not start them for the same reasons? You don’t.

I believe every last one of them did it on a lark and they knew full well it was a hoax and until some one can prove to me other wise I will not believe they did not know it was fake. I have always since becoming a non believer that all religions were started as a hoax to see how far they could go and some founders died before they could see the results.

I also believe that humanism and atheism was started by deist to see if anyone did not believe. I mean there has to be founders of both atheist and theist to make any sense otherwise a person would not think of either there were gods or no gods as the word god or gods would not even be in their thoughts.

If I were born in the jungle and everyone around me never knew about spirituality, never heard the word and never thought about it then we would not be either atheist or deist but just ordinary people not knowing that anyone did or did not believe in a god or gods.

[ Edited: 14 September 2007 10:09 PM by Holely Goat ]
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Posted: 14 September 2007 10:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 47 ]
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Originally, long before Christianity, they were started on pure superstition because humans had not answers for what was happening in nature. Christianity, now that eventually led to a means to control and oppress the masses.  Islam followed eventually as a means of oppression.  The early myths and superstitions were not necessarily a hoax, but rather the ignorance of early humans.  However, I have not found one of the earlier religions being started as a means to see how gullible people are and I really don’t think Christianity was started as a test to see how gullible humans were either.  Judaism was started as a cultural thing, to establish and identity separate from those that occupied their territory, not a hoax or test of gullibilty.  The mystery cults were started as a hoax, but as an in group sort of thing and one could belong to many different mystery cults at the same time and most of it was a bunch of ignorant and superstitious sun worship.

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“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 15 September 2007 07:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 48 ]
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But then since I wasn’t there its hearsay and I just can not believe some one would start a religion and it not being a hoax unless they were mentality unbalanced and hearing voices. When I started my religion at least I borrowed from already established religions in which a few at the time I believed in myself and actually continued to go to church now and then, but it was only in 1995 that I was totally convinced there was no god because before I was between an agnostic and a theist and figured if anything worked in the book I wrote I would believe there was a higher power and if not I would not. Many converts claimed the powers worked for them but none ever worked for me so I concluded there could not be a god but finished the book because I set out to finish it and I don’t like to start something and not finish it.

Even now I enjoy the stories in it I wrote and have thought to change the stories a little and get them published as just stories as many people tell me they too enjoy the stories. Now that I have the book naturally I am going to keep it and perhaps some day get it published in hard bound and maybe give copies away as for pure entertainment. All of the copies now are on either cassettes or small booklet forms as it was never intended to be published and sold to the public because all of the teachings were secret and one had to hold the priesthood in order to get copies of it. The book its self is quite entertaining and the religion did teach to be positive in all thought and all action and to help those in need. Many of the teachings were very good and I am not sorry I wrote the book or that people believed in it and said it changed their lives to the better. And those that believed me that it was a hoax said it did not matter because it was the best religion they ever joined and it made their life better and thanked me for it.

In fact fewer than twenty percent of the joiners were even upset when I announced it was a hoax as over eighty percent either told me I pulled off the greatest hoax ever or laughed ot loud thinking it funny or told me they believed I was just testing their faith and continued to believe in it anyway.

But I just feel Joseph Smith and several other sects knew they were making up their religions for whatever reason and everyone had to know unless “voices inside their heads” were misleading them and they may have been schizo or high on wine or drugs if they were not making it up but either way that is no different than what I did.

But the plus side is most theist have made gays and blacks go through a living hell with their religious oppression and therefore I don’t feel one bit bad that I could start a religion that said blacks were the chosen people and gays were exalted people by God as they deserve that after hundreds of years of oppression.

In fact I wished I had never declared it was a hoax as I believe eventually a whole lot more people would start recognizing blacks and gays were the chosen people and they would have had more rights than they do now.

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Posted: 15 September 2007 08:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 49 ]
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You are forgetting that early humans did not have the scientific knowledge we do now.  They were not mentally imbalanced, but rather ignorant of their environment and had no other means to explain things other than the supernatural.  Now the Egyptians were more advance, but they were not beyond superstition, thus you have gods like Bast, but I think that was more idolatry than an actual religion.  There was no hoax about it when it came to primitive humans, just ignorance.

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Posted: 16 September 2007 07:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 50 ]
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It doesn’t matter as some one still had to make up the first religion, superstitious or not. Everything on earth was invented by somebody and all theories or beliefs were invented by some body at some time. Things don’t just come into being on their own or created by a god.

And the first person to create a religion has to design it to suit him as no god inspired him since there is no god unless of course you have doubts there might be. (that would be agnostic.)

Even the use of the club some one had to invent the idea. The use of fire some one had to invent how to use it.
Religion, some one had to invent shamans, priests and medicine men and their duties because neither came out of the air or was created by a god.

Man invented every religion even though they believed fire was a god and water was a god. The sun worshiping religion was invented by a man or group of men with their own dogma and every religion upon the face of the earth had to have had a founder or it would not have come about on its own falling out of the sky or created by a god.

However theist believe either God or Satan created every religion. Most atheist believe man invented them. Agnostic aren’t sure one way or the other.

I can’t tell you how to think and you are going to think the way you believe no matter what I say because your mind is made up. That is called free will.

I don’t even expect you to believe in me or anyone else, but I too have free will and I believe in logic and logic tells me that man not God invented religion and he invented it with his own little quirks and ideas rather those ideas he made up or he believed a “god was speaking to him through his thoughts” he none the less invented that religion.

As for the bible I believe the Christian part of it was invented to control and therefore the inventors knew it was a hoax knowing gullible people were bound to believe it.

As for Buddha I do not believe he thought he was inventing a religion but a way of life and people begin to believe it was a religion and added on to it over time.

Some religions were never intended to ever be religions but evolved into them and some religions were invented by people who might have believed in the beginning they were “inspired” but over time lost the illusion but could not quit because of all of the time and work they had already put in it.

And some believed themselves as a prophet but in time became non believers and never wanted anyone to know the truth of the foundering of that faith because of being embarrassed so they said they made it up as a hoax when in fact they didn’t.

Then there are the few who did make it up from the beginning as an experiment much as CFI uses this forum as an experiment and may or may not be either atheist or theist but riding the fence.

But I believe regardless that every single religion some one invented it inspired, experimenting, theory or for whatever reason that religion was invented by an inventor and that no super invisible being instructed anyone to put it together, and I believe while fine tuning it that threw in their own custom made dogmas and added their own theories without qualms.

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Posted: 16 September 2007 07:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 51 ]
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Sometimes more than one person creates something.  It’s not always one person.  I guess you haven’t looked into early tribal religions.  If they all see something and don’t know what it is, they all agree it’s that god- ie volcano gods and alike.  There was no one person, but a tribe.  None of them were agnositc or atheist, not even the small group who started the volcano god belief.  rolleyes  Now of course there is always the one or more who questioned the deal and thus they all found out there is no volcano god.

Humm…  Maybe you men should have left things up to the women.  What a mess!  No if we women invented religion, you men would be worshipping us.  LOL

Christianity was not a hoax, but rather a conspiracy.

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Posted: 17 September 2007 01:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 52 ]
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Oh I know those early people were superstitious but it matters not rather a whole tribe thought fire or a volcano was a god they still invented a religion by what they thought. Somebody had to be the priests and somebody had to teach the others the ceremonies they put on before those gods, so even if a committee of tribal members got together they still were the founders of that religion and they still had to decide who did what with no invisible being telling them how to do things so they made it up.

As for Christianity even if it was a conspiracy it was a hoax of a conspiracy because hoax means it was a fraud or that they knew that “God” did not direct them into creating the religion, so it was a hoax.
And that is why all religions are a hoax because the founders knew that no invisible or idol told them to create the belief system, they put it together on their own even if they believed in their gods none the less they were calling the shots.

If they weren’t then there is indeed a god and we are the stupid one not to believe in them. But as for me I don’t believe in gods because they seem powerless to stop things from happening and condemn many of the things they are suppose to have created and because of the many contradictions and the seemingly impossible things they are credited to have done and because they won’t show themselves proving they exist and because of the fairy tale like stories about them seems to far fetched.

I have been given answers by believers to my quizzes but the answers don’t even make sense so I just don’t believe in them.

I did once and although I was unhappy of the answers of one religion I still believed in some sort of a god and therefore went seeking other religions hoping I would find the “right” religion. I even meditated a lot about it and there for awhile I even believed that the true god was directing me through my thoughts of the one true religion and some how had picked me out as a prophet as I begin to write this book but half way into the book I had my doubts but was too embarrassed to tell anyone that I wanted to find the right religion so badly that my mind played tricks on me so I told everybody I invented it as a hoax to see if people would join it and see if that is how all religions started to save face, but now its too late to tell the real truth but it doesn’t matter anyway because it happened because I was fooled into believing in it too because of being so brainwashed as a child I just knew there had to be a god to have made everything and my own mind was so polluted by this belief that I imagined a god by the name of Aradia was directing me when in fact Aradia was some of the stored knowledge inside of my brain that turned Aradia from an arch angel of demons into God. I suppose I would have still believed in it had not some one I knew handed me a copy of the book called “The Bible Handbook” and I seen all of the contradictions of the bible and started believing all religions were phony and that perhaps there was no god and so I started on my quest to prove it once and for all and when I was convinced of it I announced I invented the Hitteon religion as a hoax because if I had told people the truth I would have been so embarrassed of being made out as a fool I had to tell everyone I never believed in it. The truth is although the Q’R'Beth has a little of every one’s religion in it made me more convinced that God was leading me on when in fact it was storied memories of knowledge I had learned all of my life.

Which even this I concluded once I no longer believed was that other “inspired” authors made up their religions even if they were unaware of it therefore it was a hoax brought about by ignorance and superstition and they were misleading people and I believe some of them or most of them eventually woke up, came out of it and knew it was a hoax but decided to not tell anyone perhaps because they too were embarrassed or they had the notion it can’t hurt anyone or they convinced themselves it was a hoax they were conscious of when they weren’t.

I can confess this now because as you said that no one is reading this thread this far in and therefore you are the only person knowing my little secret and the rest of the world will always believe I made the Hitteon religion up out of my head as a hoax and I was an atheist at the time when in fact in 1977 I didn’t know hardly what an atheist was except somebody that did not believe in god and I thought they were are crazy communism. In fact I didn’t even become an atheist until 1991 when I saw my first copy of the Bible Handbook and joined American Atheist four years later.

[ Edited: 17 September 2007 01:57 AM by Holely Goat ]
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Posted: 17 September 2007 09:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 53 ]
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Myself and the other mods know your little secret.  I won’t say much about that though

However, I do think you have a bit of a misconception about early humans, esp tribal ones.  Now if you are going to do something, do it right.  Mother Earth, Father Sky.  Now there could be a really interesting and very naturalistic religion.  Grab a few old Shaman to help and you’re good to go.  You can bring back an anceint tribal religion the actually makes a little bit of sense.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 17 September 2007 09:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 54 ]
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this bit of information doesnt necessarily deal with “how” to start a religion, but “why.” This is a true story and all happened this past weekend. It has affected my views on religion as a natural phenomenon. . .

HG, I would not be surprised that some religions were started sincerely.

Here is a case in point. . .

I am an Atheist. . .

My girlfriend is an Atheist. . .

My daughters mother (aka, my babies mama) is an Atheist. . .

Why does my child (Chili Chili Butt Butt, a nickname she created for herself), who is three, believe in imaginary friends,  that humans are not animals and freaked out saying, “I don’t want to die” when I inadvertently told her that everyone dies?

What wee got here is a fear of death, a notion that we are exceptional and belief in imaginary friends. Despite disbelieving parents we have all the ingredients for a sincere religion. If those three items are left to their own devices it is highly predictable that they could manifest themselves into a religion. I doubt this is something left to the imaginations of only a few. . .

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Posted: 17 September 2007 09:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 55 ]
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I agree with you, Truthaddict and those were the ingrediants ancient people had too.

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Mriana
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Posted: 19 September 2007 08:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 56 ]
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However, I do think you have a bit of a misconception about early humans, esp tribal ones.  Now if you are going to do something, do it right.  Mother Earth, Father Sky.  Now there could be a really interesting and very naturalistic religion.  Grab a few old Shaman to help and you’re good to go.  You can bring back an anceint tribal religion the actually makes a little bit of sense


As I stated to you my confession I actually did believe in it in the beginning that I was being directed by the creator although I did drink a lot in those days and often became inspired to write when I was high on alcohol which is why I believe the ancients were high on something when they became inspired. One does not suddenly out of the blue start writing a “holy” book from out of the air stone cold sober, you have to get your inspiration from some where even if it is from alcoholic drinks. I used to buy expensive wine like some people buy expensive cars and I would drink it often getting lite up like a Christmas tree and I often thought voices were guiding me to a “long lost religion” but when I was sober I had my doubts and I confined in a friend who told me “some people’s ESP works best when alcohol induced.”
I thought perhaps he was right so then would drink only when I wanted to continue my book.

But after several months a lady friend told me “that is how a lot of religions get started is by the fact people get high on drugs or alcohol and that is what is happening to you as 92% of all religions are started that way.”

By this time I was confused for sure as she taught religion is college and I was not going to argue with a college professor.
But then I wondered perhaps my own alcohol induced mind was misleading me but I could not quit by then and continued as before because what if the creator was directing me?
And if not I would be starting a new religion, but either way it couldn’t hurt anything.

Then when I had written several books and was ready to introduce it to others a friend told me “if you can convince five people within one year that God contacted you and has given you the world’s first and oldest religion I will give you a hundred dollars but if not you give me a hundred dollars because that will prove to both of us that all religions started this same way.”

As I thought about it I figured I had nothing to loose and that would be the easiest hundred dollars I ever made.

So I told a couple of people about it as to how a spirit had contacted me at night (which I typed at night) and told me through my thoughts of a long lost religion and I had written a sacred book which told the truth of all things in which she told me that we all had god like powers we were aware of. Well to make a long story short in no time at all I had a lot of followers and got my hundred dollars very quickly and continued receiving messages and wasn’t sure rather I actually was receiving them or was imaging it by the wine and would have never known for sure until an atheist friend straightened me out.

By then I was not about to tell anybody how I started the religion or they would have thought I was crazy so I told everyone I made of the religion on a bet to see if all religions started this way because that was partially right as I was not sure and a friend believed I was imagining it all thus making the bet with me.

Anyway I don’t feel that I did anything wrong and even now I sometimes wonder if there are spirits (that spirits of a bottle open up your mind to communicate with other spirits) but I don’t believe in god at the same time.

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