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Happiness - Who needs it?
Posted: 25 August 2007 01:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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No, what he is saying is that if you look at a 2-D shape, what defines it as that shape is the outline, not the blank bits of paper, but the blank bits of paper are intrinsic also to what you are seeing and if you tried to isolate the outline from what you’re looking at, it wouldn’t be that shape anymore since their would be nothing interspersing the geometric construction lines to be the middle bit.  However, from here, I think he overextrapolates the fact that the defining perimeter of a shape needs to have blank space that it encloses (whether it be paper or air or a vacuum (but, crucially, not nothing) to say that since the shape is neither just it’s perimeter or the stuff it encloses and that if you get rid of either the perimeter or the material in between you have whichever is left but not the original shape, to say that both parts are independently nothing and then overextrapolating further to say that this would also apply to the meanings of all existent things.

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Posted: 25 August 2007 02:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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However, we don’t see the world in 2-D.  We see it more in 3-D and have to look at all the pieces of the puzzle, however, I do not see superstition being part of the puzzle.  It is something to eliminate from the puzzle in order to see what it really is.  For the longest time we saw volcano gods, but once we eliminated that idea/superstition, using science and reason, we saw the volcano for what it is.  If that makes any sense at all.

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Posted: 25 August 2007 05:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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I agree.  What is good about this now though, is that we are now debating the premise in a logical way rather than debating it’s right to be on this forum, so this thread has begun the philosophical process.

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Posted: 25 August 2007 06:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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narwhol - 25 August 2007 05:05 PM

...we are now debating the premise in a logical way rather than debating it’s right to be on this forum…

First, is it not the moderators responsibility to determine if, and what, belongs to this forum or not? Secondly, you were not debating the issue of whether the original topic of this post belonged to this forum or not, you first went towards arguing over whether or not Jufa should be allowed to post what you felt were nonsense responses or not, which then turned into a debate of what is or is not philosophy. Please allow me to bring the original post back into the light: “Happiness… who “needs” it? Is it worthwhile to pursue? Does it even need to be pursued. Is the definition of happiness relative to the individual and based off of ones discrimination’s? Some even think that the pursuit of happiness is their purpose in life! What are your thoughts?”

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Posted: 25 August 2007 08:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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Not if your discussing it in terms of a debate as to whether non-philosophy belongs in a philosophy thread.  Anyway, walking back to happiness (whoopa oh yeah-eh-eh), I think yes, you should pursue sustainable happiness - in moderation.  You see I actually think to do so is ethical.  If you pursue sustainable happiness, and really understand what that means, you quickly realise that you can’t do that at the detriment of others’s happiness.  In fact, you realise that there’s is dependent on your own and yours on theirs.  If you try to stride over them, you quickly realise you are experiencing dark feelings, thoughts you don’t enjoy and terrible lows.  The other thing is that you also have to love (accept) yourself to really be sustainably happy, which helps you fulfil the ethical duties you have to yourself.  And you feel good, which is always an added bonus - so I’d say it’s a win-win situation this one.

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Posted: 25 August 2007 08:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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Morgantj put forth;

Please allow me to bring the original post back into the light: “Happiness… who “needs” it? Is it worthwhile to pursue? Does it even need to be pursued. Is the definition of happiness relative to the individual and based off of ones discrimination’s? Some even think that the pursuit of happiness is their purpose in life! What are your thoughts?”

Here how my original post began;

If one cannot open their mind, they cannot grasp the greatest gift of all!

Myths, philosophy, religions, theism, atheism, gnosticism are saying what life itself says: this is your life, and even though you are indoctrinated to the mentality of a collective universal human mind set, nonetheless, you are the only player of the game of your life, and it is your responsibility to come out from among them to form your own foundation and avenues of singular interindependency. The buck begins with you, and stays with you, and will end with you.

As the grains of sand upon the beaches of the world, so are the different ways individual men have come to the role they play in the odyessy of life.

Now a conclusion was jumped to about what I posted to mean one thing when in actuality, it was dealing with the position of fear, and speculation concerning that fear.  There can never be any form of worthwhileness while -don’t you just love the way I write- one is in shackled.  This is why I stated “The buck begis with you, and stays with you, and will end with you.”

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Posted: 25 August 2007 08:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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with all due respect, I find it totally worthwhile to be shackled.  And whipped too.  Whilst wearing ladies high heeled shoes.  And that sense of fear heightens the experience for me.  So perhaps not for you, but it’s a blanket statement to say that there can be no sense of worthwhileness in being shackled. I am assuming you have tried this also from your posting, but if you haven’t do so because that way you can keep your mind open to the greatest gift of all - a damned good consensual flogging!

[ Edited: 25 August 2007 08:38 PM by narwhol ]
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Posted: 25 August 2007 08:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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Well, since what Jufa meant concerning the circle has been opened, allow me to take a shot at what Jufa meant.

The circle is the invisible form of eternity. The definition is the infinite reality that the form of the circle as well as the void are so because there is never a beginning so there can never be and end.  Therefore all dimensions, whether 2d or 3d are only the perception of the zero [man] They have no probative value outside of the circle.  And therefore there can never really be a point to return too. There is no merry-go-round.  There is only the filling of the void with that which is a metaphor.

The reality of the circle is the life it is experiencing because it is linked to the inner perimeter by the substance of touch.

The life experience is to know that within the definition which is the essence of the substance which touches, and therefore attach itself to the essence by expression; becoming the infinity of living and experiencing “worlds without end.”

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Posted: 25 August 2007 08:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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How does any of that relate to the world, the universe, actuality, why is the zero man and what do you mean by the zero anyway - I never draw zero’s as part of a circle, what do you mean by the outside of the circle, and how does that final sentence look when translated into grammatically correct english complete with a semantic meaning?

Oh-! And where has there ever been an eternity?  This universe and times itself had a beginning as shown by Hawking and Penrose, for which they won the Nobel Prize.

[ Edited: 25 August 2007 08:54 PM by narwhol ]
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Posted: 25 August 2007 08:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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jufa - 25 August 2007 08:21 PM

Morgantj put forth;

Please allow me to bring the original post back into the light: “Happiness… who “needs” it? Is it worthwhile to pursue? Does it even need to be pursued. Is the definition of happiness relative to the individual and based off of ones discrimination’s? Some even think that the pursuit of happiness is their purpose in life! What are your thoughts?”

Here how my original post began;

If one cannot open their mind, they cannot grasp the greatest gift of all!

Myths, philosophy, religions, theism, atheism, gnosticism are saying what life itself says: this is your life, and even though you are indoctrinated to the mentality of a collective universal human mind set, nonetheless, you are the only player of the game of your life, and it is your responsibility to come out from among them to form your own foundation and avenues of singular interindependency. The buck begins with you, and stays with you, and will end with you.

As the grains of sand upon the beaches of the world, so are the different ways individual men have come to the role they play in the odyessy of life.

Now a conclusion was jumped to about what I posted to mean one thing when in actuality, it was dealing with the position of fear, and speculation concerning that fear.  There can never be any form of worthwhileness while -don’t you just love the way I write- one is in shackled.  This is why I stated “The buck begis with you, and stays with you, and will end with you.”

Exactly my point, as you just said, your position dealt with “fear, and speculation concerning that fear.” but at no point did you relate any of what you said to “happiness”.

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Posted: 25 August 2007 09:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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narwhol - 25 August 2007 08:52 PM

This universe and times itself had a beginning as shown by Hawking and Penrose, for which they won the Nobel Prize.

question

I don’t believe Hawking or Penrose has ever won a Nobel Prize. Perhaps you’re thinking of the Eddington Medal they won in 1975?

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Posted: 25 August 2007 11:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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Though keeping this thread on track seems hopeless (especially, narwhol, if you keep responding to Jufa as if he/she has said something!), let’s start with the question “what is happiness?” To decide if it is necessary, we should try and agree on what we are talking about. In day-to-day usage, I think we mean positive feelings/emotions. Now it is possible, though I doubt desirable, to live for some time without those, so I don’t know if they are necessary to life, though I think they are necessary to a life worth living. Doug pointed to what Aristotle hadto say about “eudaimonia,” and I think that might be more what morgantj is talking about. Necessary to life, I would say no. Necessary to a happy life, of course. The answer I guess depends on what you mean by the question.

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Posted: 26 August 2007 01:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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Morgantj states;

Exactly my point, as you just said, your position dealt with “fear, and speculation concerning that fear.” but at no point did you relate any of what you said to “happiness”.

My position did not beging with fear.  My position dealt with a mindset which is not a state of mind, because for it to be a state of mind, one has to know what it is stating.  Happiness has not been defined here to be an inclusive truth for all.  And to come to a conclusion based on a consensus of what one thinks does not define happiness, it defines a consensus based on the relativity of a meaning which is not exact to all individuals in the exact same manner.  This means the topic “Happiness - Who needs it”? is a blanket assumption that everyone knows what happiness is because happiness has been absorped, and felt the same way by each and every individual alive.     

But let’s look at this from another angle If I say happiness is a state of owning up to the responsibility of finding out for one’s self the exactness of what is what based on being you “are the only player of the game of your life, and it is your responsibility to come out from among them to form your own foundation and avenues of singular interindependency,” does it mean because I am of this minority position it is not so?

One can say what they want, but Truth stand forever, and all the other speculation, consensus, theorizing, concepts, and ideas will fall to the wayside.

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Posted: 26 August 2007 03:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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jufa - 26 August 2007 01:53 PM

“Happiness - Who needs it”? is a blanket assumption that everyone knows what happiness is because happiness has been absorped, and felt the same way by each and every individual alive.     

You are assuming that it is an assumption. You see, I know that anyone here at any point can ask, “how does one define happiness?” I actually would it expect the question, for I would not assume we all have the same definition. that is why In my original post I also asked “Is the definition of happiness relative to the individual and based off of ones discrimination’s?”

It’s quite impressive that so many of your posts seem like they came from some kind of chomskybot generator. I’ll give you credit for making me scratch my head and think, “What the heck did he just say. What does that have to do with the subject.”

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Posted: 26 August 2007 03:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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Please allow me to bring to the attention of everyone reading this thread; especially those who followed my ‘circle’ post and interpreted it’s meaning before I, the originator of this post explained exactly what I meant.  I point this out because it brings out the fallacy that one can understand the philosophy of the dead with clarity without being able to question the philosophy as Narwhol questioned me

How does any of that relate to the world, the universe, actuality, why is the zero man and what do you mean by the zero anyway - I never draw zero’s as part of a circle, what do you mean by the outside of the circle, and how does that final sentence look when translated into grammatically correct english complete with a semantic meaning?
Oh-! And where has there ever been an eternity?  This universe and times itself had a beginning as shown by Hawking and Penrose, for which they won the Nobel Prize

to acquire directness of meaning.  Assumption of understanding is the laziness of man for not having a philosphy of their own to present. 

Now Narwhol you ask what “How does any of that relate to the world, the univese, actuality, why is the zero man and what do you mean by the zero?  To answer your question, one has to ask themselves what is the world?  The world is as many millions of worlds in the universe.  All formed by the same principle.  What makes what you contend to be the world unique in the universe as compared to all others?  When looking at the universe from this planet, there is no end to view.  When looking at this planet from no end of view, this planet does not exist in the scheme of totality.  But you and I know it exist because we live, move, and have our beings upon it.  But what is the significance of it? and more importance, what is the significance of this planet’s and those who inhabit it? zero, just as the significance of the planet when compared to the reality of the universe.  Man, and his world is important only to himself.  But in reality, man is as that big empty space which was just discovered in the universe, it represents nothing.

Eternity is only the moment which is.  This means you are eternally incorporated into the words of Jufa eternally.  And when you respond to this post, still you are eternally in the grip of the words of Jufa.  Does it mean anything.  No, just as the words you became eternally tied to of others which some you believe are important enough to base a philosophy upon and others you find no meaning to.  Does it mean anything?  No.  It means zero.  Man is a zero in the eternity of the moment of his awareness, which has “no logic for existence.”

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