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And they call this the “love of God”?
Posted: 26 August 2007 12:44 PM   [ Ignore ]
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I’m reading this weeks IHS HNN newsletter and I came across this article:

http://www.humaniststudies.org/enews/?id=311&article=1

Will it become illegal for the Rev. Fred Phelps to call gay people “fags” and tell them they are going to hell?

That’s what many ministers fear. In fact, more than 30 African-American ministers took out an ad in the July 11 issue of USA Today to warn churchgoers that federal legislation has been introduced that could curb their religious speech, according to The Chicago Sun-Times.

Again, the question comes to my mind, “How can they love themselves with so much hate in their hearts?”  “How can they say this is love, much less “the word of a loving god”?  They talk about love so much, in particularly “God’s love”, yet what they are actually talking about is “human acceptance” or rather their dogmatic acceptance of other humans who conform to their dogma and nothing to do with any supernatural deity, but of course to them that statement about “human acceptance” is considered a lie to them and insist they are preaching the “inerrant word of God”.

Many conservative ministers complain that their denunciation of homosexuality is mischaracterized by gay-rights activists as hate speech. They also fear the bill will infringe on their First Amendment rights of freedom of speech and freedom of religion, despite a provision that states enforcement of the bill cannot usurp constitutional law, which includes the guarantee of free speech. The ministers also fear that they will be held liable for hate crimes based on sexual orientation committed by their parishioners.

They do delude themselves don’t they?  It is hate, plain and simple.  Hate based on inane dogmatic religious beliefs, but of course, I’m “preaching to the chior” here.  I somehow have a problem with allowing the Evangelical Fundamentalists the right to preach hate for others based on the written word of man and inciting people to hurt others in some form.  Who are the people standing the pulpit preaching hate and bigotry anyway?  Seems to me that such ministers should be liable for brainwasing their sheep and teaching them prejudice based on something that was written by HUMANS and not the inerrant word of God.  Ministers have a lot more influence on their congregations than they may think and lack of education and reason doesn’t help either.

I seriously think that Freedom of Speech might end where the other person’s nose begins.  After all, it is illegal to shout “FIRE!” in a public place.  There has been good reason for that established for such a law.  Maybe it’s time these ministers think about what happens after they preach sermons concerning hate.  Granted, not all members of these churches go out and hurt others after such sermons, but others do- “Because God told them so.”  rolleyes  Where did the “God told them so” come from?  From the written word of man in the O.T. to stone people for being gay or anything else considered to be against “God’s Law”.

Maybe I’m wrong on this form of Free Speech being right up there with the word “FIRE!”  Maybe I’m too liberal, see the potential problems with spouting words of hate, or something.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 26 August 2007 02:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Now they can take their case to our wonderful Bush chosen Supreme Court, have their hate speech validated, and the First Amendment warped to include bashing gays.

Occam

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Posted: 26 August 2007 09:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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he ministers also fear that they will be held liable for hate crimes based on sexual orientation committed by their parishioners.

As well they should be.

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Posted: 26 August 2007 10:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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I agree, rsonin.  What they do does more harm than good to others, but they will probably cry to the Shrub and they will probably get their way.  rolleyes  Fundies.  You know I can’t stand them, esp when they start hurting others, which seems to be all the time anymore.  :(

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 26 August 2007 11:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Maybe we need to take out ads telling Christians that the word HELL isn’t in the Bible.

The Catholic Church has been propagating Roman paganism for 1700 years and the Protestants haven’t figured it out.

LOL

It has long seemed to me that people who lived near volcanoes would come up with the underground fire and brimstone myth.  No active volcanoes in the middle east where the Jews were.

http://www.bibletopics.com/BibleStudy/149.htm

http://what-the-hell-is-hell.com/HellStudy/HellCharts.htm

Sheol
  In ancient Jewish beliefs, the dwelling place of the dead: “the land of gloom and deep darkness” (Job 10:21). It was generally believed that the good and the wicked alike dwell in Sheol. The apocryphal First Book of Enoch, however, describes Sheol as being divide into different regions, where the dead are rewarded or punished according to the lives they led.
  (“If This Goes On—”, Starship Troopers)

http://heinleinsociety.org/concordance/real/s_real.htm

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Fiziks is Fundamental

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Posted: 27 August 2007 12:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Yes, they don’t realize that it is a mistranslation for “the grave” and the idea that it was a fire place came from the fire that burnt constantly to burn rubbish and sometimes dead bodies.  Basically it was an incentorator.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 27 August 2007 05:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Many writers, including some Christian theologians like Paul Tillich and more recently John Shelby Spong, have observed that “Christians” like Phelps turn religion on its head. They’re like the anti-Christ. Tragically, for many people in our culture, masquerading under the name “Christian” is enough to give one a pass: “Well, at least they believe in God.”

What’s always important to me here is how we can best respond to this. We need to clean up our own act so that we are seen as holding and promoting commonly shared values. When and if we do that, we may be able to put the Phelpses of the world in their place.

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I cannot in good conscience support CFI under the current leadership. I am here in dissent and in support of a Humanism that honors and respects everyone.

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Posted: 27 August 2007 06:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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If the African-American religious leaders are the ones mainly against this bill, then how would they like it if some one is allowed to call them; “niggers, spooks, darkies” and “spades?” After all whats good for the goose is good for the gander. If they are opposed of anyone calling gays slur names then the rest of us ought to be able to call them by slur names too.

Here in New Mexico they past a law this year just like that and here it is called the “Fred Phelps Law” named after one of the most hated Americans according to a poll. In fact if Fred Phelps or his parishers show up to picket they are to be arrested on sight and charged with a felony. My friend whom I go hiking with loves to shout out the window of his car “Queers!” when ever we drive by a gay establishment, now he will be arrested and I won’t feel sorry either.

In fact this ought to put a crimp in the fundy style of spreading hate. But I happen to know that there is absolutely no place in the entire bible that even mentions gays as the people who claim it is there are not reading the passage right and do not understand the passages either. In fact many people have re-written the bible so it says the word “homosexual” when in fact homosexuality was accepted back in those times as normal, but the narrow minded theist of the past fifty years have twisted the bible around to suit themselves and as one might say “reorganized and revamped the Christian religion” to suit their own narrow minded agenda as an agenda not unlike that of the Muslim hatred of non-Muslims. In fact fundies are very much like the same people who crashed airplanes into the Twin Towers.

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In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holely Goat I bring the truth

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Posted: 27 August 2007 09:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Holely Goat - 27 August 2007 06:45 PM

If the African-American religious leaders are the ones mainly against this bill, then how would they like it if some one is allowed to call them; “niggers, spooks, darkies” and “spades?” After all whats good for the goose is good for the gander. If they are opposed of anyone calling gays slur names then the rest of us ought to be able to call them by slur names too.

That’s treading on thin ice and could end up with a lot of violence.  My sons are not gay, but they are not against gays nor are they Christians.  They would not appreciate being called such names.  So where do you draw the line?  Where does it all stop?

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 28 August 2007 09:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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I couldn’t agree with you more but I was just making a point that if African Americans are going to be bigots against gays then you should remember that before they were liberated people were bigots against them and called them names and kept them from getting their civil rights, so they ought not become bigots themselves because there is absolutely no place in the bible that condemns gays and if there is I would like to know where except in these new revised bibles that have been rewritten in the past thirty years as the King James version has no such place in it as most people do not even understand what the bible actually says. Most people read the bible like a five year old trying to read Einstein’s books. The bible should never be read literally. Not that I believe in it but I did go to bible college and did take a course in religious science and do understand the bible and if a person reads the bible right they will understand it and no where does it say God is against homosexuals nor does it even mention such acts. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of men raping both men and women as well as angels, not because of gays. And the passage “to lay as women lay” means for any man to lay in a woman’s bed as it was taboo in those times for any man including a husband to lay in the same bed as a woman lies in. And all of the other passages so-called-passages against gays do not exist either. This just goes to show the ignorance of some religious leaders.

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Posted: 28 August 2007 09:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Yes, just recently the Anglican Bishop of Africa was spewing the same words against gays that were once used against him.  I was astounded.  How could he treat others as he has been treated if he did not like it?  It once happened to him and probably in his lifetime since Apartide (spelling?) ended recently.  He was UNBELIEVABLE!

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 28 August 2007 10:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Unbelievable indeed! You know something, I believe that brainwashing can lead to malfunctioning of the brain leading to insanity.
Now mind you it is just a theory but how else can one explain this being so blinded by hatred and indoctrination by religious leaders to mislead and control people and those people following these leaders without question? Like they are the living dead, zombies.
Then never got me that way when I was a former Christian as I was open for anything and would listen but most have minds that are a closed book. Hmmm, what is going on with them really?

This gay bishop must surely have lost his mind or he never had a mind to loose to begin with. I wonder where he got his education to learn the bible? Its amazing how dumb some people really are. The blind leading the blind.

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Posted: 28 August 2007 11:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Oh I agree with you on that insanity bit, HG.  That is one thing we do agree on for sure.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 29 August 2007 05:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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I just sorta have a wee itty-bitty problem (NO BIGGY) having to be forced every day, and having forced upon my children that men put their weiners into other men’s butt-holes, and make big wad because it is an acceptable practice, and it is GOOD. It is what must be. It is what life is all about. No! It is NOT! If I were to tuck your kiddies into bed some night, and explain to them that it is good to touch my dick, and to put their hands into places on people but for sure use a condom. Your kids? Well? How would you feel about that? Yeah. Me too.
Not that it’s wrong or anything, GAK!. Only that I really don’t think it is necessary to display the concept every day, on every television program, and in every movie, for whatever the purposes may be, and you know what those purposes are.
Would it be okay for me to raise my children without influencing them sexually in any manner? They will survey those things naturally, and without the moronic influences of Hollywood. The Child-Rape capitol of the world.
  Evidently if we have to go to the caves, I guess that would pretty much be it. I don’t and never have displayed for public viewing my sexual preferences. Why should I? Double-Shoulder-Shrug.
This crap is so extremely obvious, and condoning it is a serious slap in the face for my own kids. Is it okay if we’re all just straight? NOPE!!!! We are suppressing homosexual desires by attempting to procreate via the biblical and Billy-Graham Natural way. Can’t do that anymore. Can’t even be accepted as non-religious, and enjoying sex with a person of the “God-Forbid” opposite sex without being ridiculed. This is unreal….but it is real. It is happening, and when good becomes bad, and vise-versa.
Res Firma Nitescere Nescit. I’m rusty, but it is what it is.
Our girls got their fill of teachers telling them how to have anal sex safely, and brought their homework papers to us, along with the thick butt-condoms, and said. “WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?“We pulled them immediately. Math is not an issue, in public schools, and most definitely neither is any form of higher learning. It’s anal sex? Good luck with that. Not with my kids!
They are now home-schooled. tutored, and practicing dance and music, and art. They are outstanding, and intelligent enough from day-one to tell their parents that some crap is up, and they don’t need it.
I was molested, and raped as a child. Think I’m going to allow a school system to groom and seduce my kids? Huh-UH!
That was a BIG to toss out there, but my family has nothing to hide from anyone EVER.
This indoctrination is really bad. You will see it if you haven’t seen it by now because of your big-ol self-prescribed granny blinders, and if you think it’s getting better because you want to make kids accept EVERYONE, you will wind-up at the feet of disappointment, and a really EFFED-UP family.
Morals actually serve a purpose. Intelligence is obviously finished in this country, and we will not allow it to become an issue. My girls are smarter than adults. That worries you. Not me. Our children will not mimick apes, and primordial scum. They were raised by human beings. Two Parents. Male and Female. It is healthy, and works out well. Having to defend ourselves for being people is only a sign of the times. Only a sign of the times. Only a sign of the times.
Barukh Hashem. Barukh Hashem

Good Luck.

Bee-StingsHard

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Posted: 29 August 2007 08:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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I hope you are not saying that homosexuals rape children.  That is just not true and no it would not be appropriate for you to teach your children to touch you.  We are talking about something totally different.  Also you are not influencing them to BE homosexuals by telling them there are people who do fall for the same sex.  As far as we can tell, homosexuality is genetic- unfortunately they are saying right now it is through the mother.  I really hate when they say things like that.  It reminds me of the “refridgerator mom” deal when they were trying to figure out why some children were Autistic.  rolleyes

The school system does not groom your kids to be homosexuals either or to rape children either.  You aren’t alone with what happened to you as a child either, but I think that is a big jump from that incident to homosexuals.  I do happen to know what I’m talking about too because it was a my own father, a straight man.  So it’s not like I know nothing.  Whoever abused you as a child, it really had nothing to do with homosexuality.  I really think such reactions, as pulling out of school over sex ed., give kids a complex too.  I’m not sure where you get your ideas, but it was not from being raped.  I had years of therapy to get over what happened to me, but I can assure you that homosexuality has nothing to do with one’s personal morals.  I think if you look at statistics you will find that most child molesters are straight men.

Further more, just because a child is raised by homosexual parents does not mean they will grow up to be gay.  Many gay men and women have adopted and raised kids. Those kids turned out straight unless they had a predisposed tendency (genes) to be gay.  Two same sex parents does not cause homosexuality and influences does not cause one to be gay or straight either.

BTW, did you know we all start out in the womb as females and depending on whether or not an X or a Y (and in some cases extra chomosones) is what turns us into boys or keeps us girls.  Then when we are born we are supposedly bi-sexual.  Once the genetics (not influences) kick in we become one or the other and some people stay bi-sexual.  Influences have very little to do with it, otherwise why would some children born of straight parents turn out gay?  It seems to me too many people overreact to such things and really need to learn more about it.  Of course, there are those who try to refute science and say we don’t know anything scientifically.  All I can do when I hear that is shake my head.

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“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 29 August 2007 09:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Beesting - 29 August 2007 05:24 AM

I just sorta have a wee itty-bitty problem (NO BIGGY) having to be forced every day, and having forced upon my children that men put their weiners into other men’s butt-holes, and make big wad because it is an acceptable practice, and it is GOOD. ...I really don’t think it is necessary to display the concept every day, on every television program, and in every movie, for whatever the purposes may be, and you know what those purposes are.

Gosh, where do you live?  I don’t see anything like this on the television or movies I watch.  True, I do occasionally see a character who is homosexual, but I don’t see them graphically portraying homosexual sex (any more than they graphically portray heterosexual sex).

In short, I think you’re exaggerating and over-reacting just a tad.

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