The question is, just to restate it: “Can You Be Good Without God?”
I don’t see how anyone can discuss this question without acknowledging that there are two terms here that are so rife with assumptions that we need to flesh them out. Those terms are ‘good,’ and ‘god’. I guess I should start by asking any of the atheists here, what do those terms mean to you? How do you define ‘good’ and ‘god’? (And please do not quote a dictionary for me. I want to know what it REALLY means to YOU. Use your own words.)
In order to have any meaningful discourse, we must define our terms. I know that when I use the word ‘God,’ i am using it very differently than an Atheist is. So, we need to agree on working definitions. The ball is in the Atheist’s court, so to speak.
The question is, just to restate it: “Can You Be Good Without God?”
I don’t see how anyone can discuss this question without acknowledging that there are two terms here that are so rife with assumptions that we need to flesh them out. Those terms are ‘good,’ and ‘god’. I guess I should start by asking any of the atheists here, what do those terms mean to you? How do you define ‘good’ and ‘god’? (And please do not quote a dictionary for me. I want to know what it REALLY means to YOU. Use your own words.)
In order to have any meaningful discourse, we must define our terms. I know that when I use the word ‘God,’ i am using it very differently than an Atheist is. So, we need to agree on working definitions. The ball is in the Atheist’s court, so to speak.
I am starting to feel like the Christians I debate with at school. I would say nice is moralistic, but then you would want me to explain that to. So for now we’ll just use general definitions. Ok?
yes, Zminer, you are correct. Plato’s stuff is full of this: we need a definition that is as concrete as possible, that we both agree on, so that in discussion we both MEAN the same thing when we use a word.
Good — Generally speaking, this is a word that applies to moral or ethical behavior, which are abstractions originating in the human consciousness. It is best defined by reference to its opposite. Evil characterizes any actions which tend to harm other people or things in some way (without a good reason for doing so, as in the case of policemen arresting a criminal). Good is the habit of avoiding evil and/or actually helping people, including yourself.
God — In the context of this discussion, I take God to mean an imaginary (or postulated, if you prefer) being which is supposed to be the personification of all the abstractions of human consciousness. This being is supernatural in its nature, and offers no other evidence for its existance beyond the conjecture that he must exist in order for human consciousness to exist.
Aw, that’s a shame. I don’t really have the time to join another forum, either, especially since the mere question of what “God” means can take forever to answer.
My primary forum is at augustachronicle.com, and we once had a thread devoted to that question alone (“What do you mean by God?”). We never DID get a good answer to that question, that everyone could agree with.
[quote author=“advocatus”]Okay, for the sake of argument…
Good — Generally speaking, this is a word that applies to moral or ethical behavior, which are abstractions originating in the human consciousness. It is best defined by reference to its opposite. Evil characterizes any actions which tend to harm other people or things in some way (without a good reason for doing so, as in the case of policemen arresting a criminal). Good is the habit of avoiding evil and/or actually helping people, including yourself.
God — In the context of this discussion, I take God to mean an imaginary (or postulated, if you prefer) being which is supposed to be the personification of all the abstractions of human consciousness. This being is supernatural in its nature, and offers no other evidence for its existance beyond the conjecture that he must exist in order for human consciousness to exist.
Okay, then, getting back to the definitions I used, it seems obvious that in that case NO, you can’t be good without “god”, that is, without the ability to think abstractly. This begs the question of whether this “god” is a real, living and breathing (if you’ll pardon the expression) entity, and not just another abstraction that humans created in order to explain where their ability to create abstractions came from. Sort of like the ancient Greeks who believed that all abstract ideas were represented by perfect, imperishable “forms” floating around in the ether.
The next question then becomes: Is “god” the same as the Christian God, who has the ability to create the universe, forgive sin, and walk on water? The answer to that is: no way of telling.
