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let’s discuss this question…
Posted: 24 February 2005 12:19 PM   [ Ignore ]
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The question is, just to restate it: “Can You Be Good Without God?”

I don’t see how anyone can discuss this question without acknowledging that there are two terms here that are so rife with assumptions that we need to flesh them out.  Those terms are ‘good,’ and ‘god’.  I guess I should start by asking any of the atheists here, what do those terms mean to you?  How do you define ‘good’ and ‘god’?  (And please do not quote a dictionary for me.  I want to know what it REALLY means to YOU.  Use your own words.)

In order to have any meaningful discourse, we must define our terms.  I know that when I use the word ‘God,’ i am using it very differently than an Atheist is.  So, we need to agree on working definitions.  The ball is in the Atheist’s court, so to speak.

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Posted: 24 February 2005 12:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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let’s discuss this question…

The question is, just to restate it: “Can You Be Good Without God?”

I don’t see how anyone can discuss this question without acknowledging that there are two terms here that are so rife with assumptions that we need to flesh them out.  Those terms are ‘good,’ and ‘god’.  I guess I should start by asking any of the atheists here, what do those terms mean to you?  How do you define ‘good’ and ‘god’?  (And please do not quote a dictionary for me.  I want to know what it REALLY means to YOU.  Use your own words.)

In order to have any meaningful discourse, we must define our terms.  I know that when I use the word ‘God,’ i am using it very differently than an Atheist is.  So, we need to agree on working definitions.  The ball is in the Atheist’s court, so to speak.

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Posted: 24 February 2005 12:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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As we already semi already know each other I will give my 2 cence worth.
Good=nice and law obeying
God=Always existing, all powerful being

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Posted: 24 February 2005 12:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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[quote author=“CherokeeAtheist”]Good=nice and law obeying

What laws? 
What is ‘nice’? 

You need to use terms that are as objective as possible.

God=Always existing, all powerful being

Is that all?

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Posted: 24 February 2005 12:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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I am starting to feel like the Christians I debate with at school. I would say nice is moralistic, but then you would want me to explain that to. So for now we’ll just use general definitions. Ok?

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Posted: 24 February 2005 12:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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[quote author=“CherokeeAtheist”]moralistic,

That’s definitely getting closer to concreteness…

So for now we’ll just use general definitions.

I can deal with this… give me some general definitions to work with smile

Ok?

Sounds ok to me

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Posted: 24 February 2005 12:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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http://www.definitions.com will be the general ones for now.

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Posted: 25 February 2005 11:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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yes, Zminer, you are correct.  Plato’s stuff is full of this: we need a definition that is as concrete as possible, that we both agree on, so that in discussion we both MEAN the same thing when we use a word.

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Posted: 02 March 2005 10:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Thats why I gave a website. I don’t want to be 80 and still be saying definitions.

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Posted: 03 March 2005 10:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Good point!

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Posted: 09 March 2005 03:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Okay, for the sake of argument…

Good — Generally speaking, this is a word that applies to moral or ethical behavior, which are abstractions originating in the human consciousness.  It is best defined by reference to its opposite.  Evil characterizes any actions which tend to harm other people or things in some way (without a good reason for doing so, as in the case of policemen arresting a criminal).  Good is the habit of avoiding evil and/or actually helping people, including yourself.

God — In the context of this discussion, I take God to mean an imaginary (or postulated, if you prefer) being which is supposed to be the personification of all the abstractions of human consciousness.  This being is supernatural in its nature, and offers no other evidence for its existance beyond the conjecture that he must exist in order for human consciousness to exist.

There.  Is that good enough for you?

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Posted: 10 March 2005 10:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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I think Jason is gone now.  He has decided its better only to debate on one site.

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Posted: 11 March 2005 03:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Aw, that’s a shame.  I don’t really have the time to join another forum, either, especially since the mere question of what “God” means can take forever to answer. 

My primary forum is at augustachronicle.com, and we once had a thread devoted to that question alone (“What do you mean by God?”).  We never DID get a good answer to that question, that everyone could agree with.

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Posted: 17 March 2005 03:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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[quote author=“advocatus”]Okay, for the sake of argument…

Good — Generally speaking, this is a word that applies to moral or ethical behavior, which are abstractions originating in the human consciousness.  It is best defined by reference to its opposite.  Evil characterizes any actions which tend to harm other people or things in some way (without a good reason for doing so, as in the case of policemen arresting a criminal).  Good is the habit of avoiding evil and/or actually helping people, including yourself.

God — In the context of this discussion, I take God to mean an imaginary (or postulated, if you prefer) being which is supposed to be the personification of all the abstractions of human consciousness.  This being is supernatural in its nature, and offers no other evidence for its existance beyond the conjecture that he must exist in order for human consciousness to exist.

There.  Is that good enough for you?

Now this is something I can get on board with.

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Posted: 31 March 2005 10:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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I copy and paste alot of my writings. Especially my long ones.

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Posted: 01 April 2005 03:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Okay, then, getting back to the definitions I used, it seems obvious that in that case NO, you can’t be good without “god”, that is, without the ability to think abstractly.  This begs the question of whether this “god” is a real, living and breathing (if you’ll pardon the expression) entity, and not just another abstraction that humans created in order to explain where their ability to create abstractions came from.  Sort of like the ancient Greeks who believed that all abstract ideas were represented by perfect, imperishable “forms” floating around in the ether.

The next question then becomes: Is “god” the same as the Christian God, who has the ability to create the universe, forgive sin, and walk on water?  The answer to that is:  no way of telling.

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