I might eat my words…
Posted: 09 September 2007 10:42 PM   [ Ignore ]
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But I’d sooner die than submit to such an abusive and primitive religion.  It is demeaning and degrading to the human race and Europe should know this more than any other continent.  Thanks to Acharya for sending this video to me (and others).  I just hope she is wrong that the U.S. is next.  :(  I feel sorry for this man, because he is supposedly getting death threats for speaking out against the Islamic religion. He’s come out of hiding to make this video though and I really can’t blame him.  It is not some god doing the death threats, the violence, or abuses to humanity, but rather humans. It’s a shame that religious extremists cannot see that.  I still say, such behaviour is a symptom of mental illness, but if Dawkins wants to call it a virus, so be it.  Who am I to argue in the face of such primitive religious violence?  I doubt I will eat my words though, for there is no god.  Period.  Just humans killing each other in the name of religion.  OK now I sound like Sam Harris, so I’ll just let this guy from Europe speak.  He does it so much better, probably because he is there and sees what is happening first hand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsE5Q8nke9k

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 10 September 2007 01:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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The US isn’t next. Europe has an Islamist population because you can’t oppress a minority group and pretend everything’s alright without some of its members radicalizing. In the US it’s happened to a good number of black people (many of whom converted to Islam as a way of rejecting Americanism); however, since it isn’t nearly so racist toward immigrants as Europe is, its immigrant Muslim population is surprisingly well-assimilated.

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Posted: 10 September 2007 01:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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I certainly hope you are right Alon.  I must admit, I have known a Sunni family and they were very nice people.  They just didn’t care much that I am a Humanist, but we got along very well while they ran the convient store.  They were shut down by the police here though because they were supposedly doing some shady business on the side there.  Whatever it was, I don’t want to know, but I could guess given what little she told me.  That had nothing to do with them being Sunni though, but rather a vice that any group of people could succumb too.

However, I’m not so sure a militant Islamic group wouldn’t want to take over the U.S.  They don’t exactly like us over in the Middle East.  I don’t think they could though without a fight.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 10 September 2007 02:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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There’s a big gap between want and can. The US has some Jihadists, but not enough to underlie a competent terror network. The post-9/11 foiled attacks on US soil were jokes: a few people in a chatroom fantasizing about blowing up the Holland Tunnel, a few people fantasizing about torching an entire gas pipeline, an attack the FBI encouraged and then foiled as part of an entrapment operation.

The global Jihadists are something else… but they haven’t amounted to much ever since the US invasion of Afghanistan. Bin Laden’s capability was then reduced to producing inspirational tapes. The people who carry out the actual work may have trained with his group in the 1990s, but still can only attack targets in their own countries. The bombings in Bali, Madrid, and London were all local operations. So were the smaller-scale things, like the French riots and the Theo Van Gogh assassination.

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Posted: 10 September 2007 08:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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OK, I do hope you don’t mind I remain skeptical for a while.  Not just with what you are saying, but also Acharya too.  I can understand both accounts, but I’m not going to give into one or the other just yet.  Even so, if Acahrya’s fears come true, I’d rather die than convert.  If what you say is true, well then no big deal, but I’m not about to jump to either thought just yet.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 10 September 2007 09:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Alon - 10 September 2007 02:43 AM

The global Jihadists are something else… but they haven’t amounted to much ever since the US invasion of Afghanistan.

Pentagon’s Defense Sciend Board in September 2004:

American direct intervention in the Muslim World has paradoxically elevated the stature of and support for radical Islamists, while diminishing support for the United States to single-digits in some Arab societies.
• Muslims do not “hate our freedom,” but rather, they hate our policies. The overwhelming majority voice their objections to what they see as one-sided support in favor of Israel and against Palestinian rights, and the longstanding, even increasing support for what Muslims collectively see as tyrannies, most notably Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan, and the Gulf states.
• Thus when American public diplomacy talks about bringing democracy to Islamic societies, this is seen as no more than self-serving hypocrisy. Moreover, saying that “freedom is the future of the Middle East” is seen as patronizing, suggesting that Arabs are like the enslaved peoples of the old Communist World — but Muslims do not feel this way: they feel oppressed, but not enslaved.
• Furthermore, in the eyes of Muslims, American occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq has not led to democracy there, but only more chaos and suffering. U.S. actions appear in contrast to be motivated by ulterior motives, and deliberately controlled in order to best serve American national interests at the expense of truly Muslim selfdetermination.
• Therefore, the dramatic narrative since 9/11 has essentially borne out the entire radical Islamist bill of particulars. American actions and the flow of events have elevated the authority of the Jihadi insurgents and tended to ratify their legitimacy among Muslims. Fighting groups portray themselves as the true defenders of an Ummah (the entire Muslim community) invaded and under attack — to broad public support.
• What was a marginal network is now an Ummah-wide movement of fighting groups. Not only has there been a proliferation of “terrorist” groups: the unifying context of a shared cause creates a sense of affiliation across the many cultural and sectarian boundaries that divide Islam.
• Finally, Muslims see Americans as strangely narcissistic — namely, that the war is all about us. As the Muslims see it, everything about the war is — for Americans — really no more than an extension of American domestic politics and its great game. This perception is of course necessarily heightened by election-year atmospherics, but nonetheless sustains their impression that when Americans talk to Muslims they are really just talking to themselves.

———

CIA in December 2004:

“Iraq and other possible conflicts in the future could provide recruitment, training grounds, technical skills and language proficiency for a new class of terrorists who are “professionalized” and for whom political violence becomes an end in itself.”

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