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Why I believe the Bible teaches universal salvation
Posted: 17 September 2007 08:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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rodgertutt - 11 September 2007 12:26 PM

I guess that it doesn’t really matter what is credible “in my eyes.”
My info is only for people who, for whatever reasons, feel constrained to regard the Bible as “the word of God.”
These particular people are frequently glad to learn that the Bible does not support the concept of an “endless-hell” god.
There may be surfers, or maybe even members of this forum who would appreciate knowing about this information.
I hope you don’t mind my using this forum to let them know about it. grin

Editing my message—will put in another post—

This RodgerTutt is an amazing internet poster or imposter.

IF you Google Rodger Tutt you will get umpteen repeats of the same posts he has just put here.

Here is link discussing Rodger:
“WHERE DO THEY COME FROM”
This pastor started to correspond with Rodger….and doesn’t know what to think…

[ Edited: 17 September 2007 08:53 PM by Jackson ]
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Posted: 17 September 2007 10:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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I do find it distasteful that he should post substantially the same message all over the net, and it makes us as Mods more likely to take a harder line with his participation here. Nobody likes cookie-cutter participation, or membership by xerox machine.

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Posted: 17 September 2007 11:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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This is true.  I’m not sure why anyone would post such a message and then just let it go either.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 18 September 2007 08:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Rodger Tutt posted similar (or was it the same?) message a while ago here. He did talk back to us then. He seemed like a very disturbed person, as far as I can remember.

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Posted: 18 September 2007 09:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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if i have learned anything about Christians and their typical backgrounds, he either really does have mental issues or is a recovering drug addict (those folks are easy prey since they are unstable and “faith based” programs not only out number secular programs but are either cheaper or covered by insurance).

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Posted: 18 September 2007 09:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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He could very well be a person with mental issues, George and Truth, but it’s hard to tell on a forum.  To say they are one of the two things you mentioned, Truth, without communicating with them in person could be erroneous.  They could be just a Fundamgelical that is taking advantage of anomyninity, which would me they are a bit bent, but not necessarily mental ill.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 18 September 2007 09:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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ehhh, maybe. but the devout ones… i mean, just by how much he cuts and pastes his comments all over the web shows he is not the average joe who goes every sunday, chews gum and then goes back home to watch a footbal game. this guy has some cherry-picked interpretation that he is dedicated to propagating all over the internet. these people exchanged some vice for this or are mentally unstable. I would make a bet on it.

look at Dubya. Was a coke sniffing alcoholic. Now God tells him to attack countries, he has visions and he cant give a speech without mentioning prayer. Im sure even Billy Graham told him to give it a rest…

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Posted: 18 September 2007 10:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Oh I’m not saying that it’s not a symptom of mental illness, I’m just saying we need to becareful diagnosing people over the net.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 18 September 2007 10:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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why, its not like I charged him a deductible and copay? that gives me an idea…

besides, im not diagnosing so much as playing the laws of probability

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Posted: 18 September 2007 10:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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dougsmith - 11 September 2007 12:42 PM

The whole idea of original sin makes no moral sense anyhow. I am not responsible for the errors of my parents, nor are the supposed “children of Adam” responsible for whatever wrong Adam did. Indeed, it would be immoral of God to punish children for the (supposed) crimes of their parents.

... there is the additional issue that eating from this tree isn’t sinful, that it was, in fact, sinful of God to have left it there as temptation. It was sinful of God to have allowed the snake into the garden as well, knowing what he did.

Of course this is all fable. But my point is that, taken literally, it is a nonsensical fable.

So even taken as a fable, the whole origin of Christianity (as salvation from this original sin) is nonsensical.

Also, I think it is a good example how Christians, even though they claim that they read the bible, read their ideas into the bible actually. Though I am not a religious jew, the way that judaism treats the garden story - without inferring anything special , is more sensible.

[ Edited: 18 September 2007 10:37 AM by wandering ]
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Posted: 18 September 2007 11:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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doug,

its more than nonsensical, its completely counterproductive to and undermines the whole concept of God. these are the kinds of things I was referring to in my “if god exists…” post.

if he is an all knowing, all powerful and all good creator then why create sin at all? like you said, why allow the snake into the garden. all these questions challenge his perfectness and moral character to the point that coupled with the fact that there is no supporting evidence of his existence we ought to conclude that he doesnt exist. the basis of his existence sits squarely on fallible fables and contradictory qualities that we attributed to him.

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Posted: 18 September 2007 11:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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truthaddict - 18 September 2007 11:13 AM

its more than nonsensical, its completely counterproductive to and undermines the whole concept of God. these are the kinds of things I was referring to in my “if god exists…” post.

if he is an all knowing, all powerful and all good creator then why create sin at all? like you said, why allow the snake into the garden. all these questions challenge his perfectness and moral character to the point that coupled with the fact that there is no supporting evidence of his existence we ought to conclude that he doesnt exist. the basis of his existence sits squarely on fallible fables and contradictory qualities that we attributed to him.

Right. The irony is that if you’re a biblical literalist, you’ll end up believing in a truly demonic God. The more sophisticated theologians who constructed the notion of an all powerful, all knowing, perfectly good God had to dispense with a lot of the Bible to do so. I think this is one reason why philosophical theology has always been in some disrepute in the church.

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Posted: 20 September 2007 01:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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im not diagnosing so much as playing the laws of probability

Yes perhaps by the laws of probability. Yes indeed why would one post a thread and not interact to it? Are they sitting back and just reading the posts to get the feedback in order to make a counter attack from another direction and planning how and what to reply for a debate in a future thread?

Only time will tell.

Or perhaps he thinks “hmm they are on to me, I better quit while I’m ahead.”

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Posted: 20 September 2007 02:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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rodgertutt - 11 September 2007 12:26 PM

I guess that it doesn’t really matter what is credible “in my eyes.”
My info is only for people who, for whatever reasons, feel constrained to regard the Bible as “the word of God.”
These particular people are frequently glad to learn that the Bible does not support the concept of an “endless-hell” god.
There may be surfers, or maybe even members of this forum who would appreciate knowing about this information.
I hope you don’t mind my using this forum to let them know about it. grin

You sure you actually recaovered from that there nervous breakdown?  I mean have you listened to yourself?

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Posted: 25 September 2007 10:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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I happened to stumble on to your site and wanted to share my experience. You mock the bible and I understand, I too, mocked the bible.
I am here to say that when God steps into a life and reveals himself that soul is never again the same. You just know, that you know, that there is a God and life takes on a whole new meaning as He imparts spiritual life into your soul.
If you took the time to do some serious research you would find the book that you mock is different from any book ever written. It is today still the best seller. Take some time to research and you will find that many of the places, people, and things written of in that extremely unusual book have been proven with indisputable evidence to be verifiable. 
Keep in mind that the book was written by over 40 different authors separated by three different continents, by thousands of years, all writing on highly controversial subjects with complete harmony. See if you can get just 10 different writers to write on a just few controversial subject with just a hundred year time span and without 3 continents separating them and see what you get.
As time goes on the evidence keeps getting stronger and stronger. But evidence can never proof what was written is true. It is extremely weird that the three major world religions all speak of this Jesus some loved him others hated him but He must have lived. what’s even stranger is the writers of the new testament record Jesus saying his words would never die. 2000 years later He has set more pens on fire, is the most studied individual, but its all just a coincidence I know He did not exist.
The bible is the only book mankind has speaking of the redemption of man kind. Its easy to pick it apart and laugh at it but if you become serious you will be amazed what it does reveal.
When you understand the bible its pretty clear Jesus tells us the religious people were a bunch of hypocrites,liars,snakes He had no nice words for them, well things have not changed much still are a bunch of divided hypocrites.
God opening up understanding is another thing and until he does that for you just enjoy your life, no need to mock people who put much effort in seeking out truth, it does pay off.
God has a plan He is all knowing, nothing caught Him off guard and he is working out mans perfection, this experience is needed when he is finished with his creation that He loves it will be very good and know one will be screaming in hell.
For those of you that think this is a beautiful world,  take a look around and get real. Forty percent of our population is hungry but lets blame it on God. Lets not take responsibility America alone could probably solve the problem for the world hunger.
Just because you have not had an experience does not mean it is not real. It really is a no brainer, if you want to believe you came from a monkey more power to you. Common sense will tell you that there is intelligent design behind this all.
Again I happened to stumble on to your site and just wanted to say life does have a much deeper meaning. My intention is not to debate with you I no that you are incapable of understanding but one day God will wake you up, along with the millions of others who already have been awakened

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