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Magnetic Therapy
Posted: 18 September 2007 07:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Stay openminded - 18 September 2007 01:56 AM

I have personally used a large magnet to eliminate infections in my throat on three occasions. On each occasion, the infection was gone within a week. I used nothing else, no antibiotics and no supplements. My mother was told by her doctor that she needed surgery on her thumb to repair a repetitive stress injury. I suggested she try using a small magnet on her thumb in the hope that she might be able to avoid the surgery. She wore it for 12 hours a day, and within a few weeks her thumb had fully recovered. No surgery was necessary. Two years later, her thumb is fine. A nurse friend of hers had the same problem with her thumb and her doctor had recommended surgery. She decided to try the magnet after hearing my mother’s story, and it worked for her too. My mother has used her large magnet to draw fluid away from an area on her elbow where fluid had accumulated (the North pole draws fluid, the South pole disperses it). Her doctor said she’d need to have it drained at least two or three times. Placing the magnet a few inches above the location for thirty minutes, twice a day, it needed draining only once, and had she started using the magnet sooner, I highly doubt any draining would have been necessary. The doctor didn’t quite know what to make of it. I’ve not only read about what magnets can do, I’ve experienced it first hand. No one can tell me they don’t work. 

This is called “anecdotal evidence” and it is worthless. What has happened to gull you in these cases is that the body is a self-repairing mechanism. It would have gotten healthy with or without the magnets. In order to determine the causal influence of something like a magnet what you need to do is set up a statistically valid large randomized trial where some do and some don’t get the magnetic therapy, and then see what happens. Where this has been done, no effect has been seen (with the small possible exception of pulsed magnetic fields for bone healing). That is, the same percentage of people got well whether or not they used the magnets.

One simply cannot do this sort of experiment with a single case.

Stay openminded - 18 September 2007 01:56 AM

Cell phones do have adverse affects. Here’s a good article that explains the history of the cover up. http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/aug2007_report_cellphone_radiation_01.htm

This is factually incorrect and based on junk science. I suggest you look through THIS thread, and in particular THIS and THIS information from the World Health Organization.

Really, it sounds like you’re getting all your information from quackery sites.

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Posted: 18 September 2007 09:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Stay openminded - 17 September 2007 05:12 PM

I’m not saying there aren’t people in alternative medicine that are dishonest and just trying to make a buck. There are.

I agree with you (the magnetic therapy didnt cure my carpeltunnell syndrome but I dont have brain cancer thanks to the “alternative medicine.” And, no I didnt have brain cancer BEFORE, but whose to say I wasnt going to be diagnosed with it and the magnetic therapy pre-empted it?). And, what I am saying is not all people burned at the stake were witches. No doubt some were killed for revenge or mistaken identity. They were medieval forms of collateral damage; or unintentional but inevitable (don’t ask how you can intentionally do something that will inevitably create an unintentional result) consequences of protecting civilization. But somewhere in the many killed were REAL witches and burning them did some obvious good since we no longer have those problems. Furthermore, I am coming under the distinct impression that Global Warming, hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis and other natural forces are still in abundant because we stopped dropping virgin sacrifices down Volcanoes. Either that or Satan fooled Abraham into not sacrificing his son and that pissed Him off (though why the Lord didn’t see that coming is a divine mystery).

And here’s Tom with the weather. . .

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Posted: 18 September 2007 11:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Here’s another example of the problem with anecdote and unscientific reasoning in evaluating therapy:

I had a classic case of AM (alternative medicine) reasoning the other day I thought might be interesting and illustrative. A woman brought her dog in 1 year ago because her AM practitioner (Vega Method style of homeopathy) detected signs of leukemia. Patient had some vomiting and diarrhea. Did bloodwork and no abnormalities found, treated symptomatically for upset stomach (it was a lab, so probably ate something it shouldn’t have), and it got better. A year later, the client comes back, this time because the dog is panting more than usual and her AM practitioner decided it had a sarcoma in its chest. Again normal diagnostics (bloodwork, x-rays) here. I reminded her that she had been worried about leukemia, whcih never developed, a year earlier. Her response was that the AM practitioner had not only NOT made a mistake, but had detected the leukemia before we were able to and cured it. So here’s how it works. About once a year this homeopathist predicts the dog has cancer. When no cancer is ever found by us, she gets the credit for finding and curing it before we can even see it. And when it eventually does develop cancer (which is the leading cause of death for this age and breed), she will get the credit for correctly predicting it. How do I get a racket like that?!

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Posted: 18 September 2007 12:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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mckenzievmd - 18 September 2007 11:57 AM

Here’s another example of the problem with anecdote and unscientific reasoning in evaluating therapy:

I had a classic case of AM (alternative medicine) reasoning the other day I thought might be interesting and illustrative. A woman brought her dog in 1 year ago because her AM practitioner (Vega Method style of homeopathy) detected signs of leukemia. Patient had some vomiting and diarrhea. Did bloodwork and no abnormalities found, treated symptomatically for upset stomach (it was a lab, so probably ate something it shouldn’t have), and it got better. A year later, the client comes back, this time because the dog is panting more than usual and her AM practitioner decided it had a sarcoma in its chest. Again normal diagnostics (bloodwork, x-rays) here. I reminded her that she had been worried about leukemia, whcih never developed, a year earlier. Her response was that the AM practitioner had not only NOT made a mistake, but had detected the leukemia before we were able to and cured it. So here’s how it works. About once a year this homeopathist predicts the dog has cancer. When no cancer is ever found by us, she gets the credit for finding and curing it before we can even see it. And when it eventually does develop cancer (which is the leading cause of death for this age and breed), she will get the credit for correctly predicting it. How do I get a racket like that?!

Absolutely shameless.

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Posted: 19 September 2007 12:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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The first issue of Skeptical Inquirer I ever read was the one that debunked magnet therapy. It was after reading that issue that I decided that I unconditionally, and undyingly loved Skepticism.

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Posted: 19 September 2007 12:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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There is no point in continuing this debate. Your minds are made up already, and you won’t be able to change mine.

Here is a link that is not directly related to alternative medicine, but is a great example of how what people believe to be true and what is actually true are two different things. Katherine Austin Fitts worked on Wall Street, and for both the Bush senior and Clinton administrations. In her story, “Dillon, Read & Co. Inc. and the Aristocracy of Stock Profits”, she details how by working for Dillon Read, and as Assistant Secretary of Housing under Bush and lead FHA financial advisor under Clinton, that among many other things, both Democrats and Republicans manipulate the housing and mortgage markets. Government and corporate corruption is intertwined, and she provides very strong evidence of that.  http://www.solari.com/news/announcements/08-07-07/

Know anything about electromagnetic weapons? Do you have any idea what they are capable of? Do you want to know? http://www.earthpulse.com/src/category.asp?catid=12

Have any idea that there was a bill passed to make technologies to manipulate the weather legal? It happened, and it has the potential to be used as a weapon. http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s109-517

Ever hear of the NAFTA Superhighway, a highway that if completed, will stretch from Mexico through the United States and into Canada? That’s just another one of the things you can learn by going to “quackery sites”.  http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51730

[ Edited: 19 September 2007 02:36 AM by Stay openminded ]
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Posted: 19 September 2007 08:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Now you’re just emptying the bottom of the barrel here. What does any of that have to do with magnet therapy?

Much of the “electromagnetic weapon” stuff is loony papers written by people who are probably borderline schizophrenic. And I don’t see the relevance of claims about manipulating the weather (I’d expect the government would like to avoid another Katrina if they could), or of building another highway into Mexico and Canada. We already have a few, you know? One can now drive into Mexico and Canada with a car. As for manipulating the mortgage market ... I have no idea how credible this person is; googling her leads me to her own site, papers written by her, and to a Wiki entry that appears to have been written by her. But again, so what? What does that have to do with anything else in the thread?

My point about quackery sites remains. If you assume that you’re getting especially accurate “inside” info from these guys you’re simply going to end up with a lot of false beliefs. It’s like relying on the Weekly World News.

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Posted: 19 September 2007 09:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Stay openminded,

the skepticism to magnetic therapy is a pharmaceutical conspiracy (same guys behind 9-11).

dont worry, I’m with you. remember, I dont have brain cancer (or AIDS) thanks to magnetic therapy! I recommend that before people get sick with something they should use magnetic therapy. So, if you dont get sick with something it shows how well it works. Think about all the illnesses, diseases, viruses, etc that exist and if you use magnetic therapy and dont get sick then that shows how diverse and well magnetic therapy works!!! What other medicine can do that and not have any side effects????!!!

and, if you already are sick you should continue to take take prescription medicine (or regular medicines you can get without prescription), eat healthy and exercise (yoga, the dance video games on play station 2, etc). Doing so will aid the magnetic therapy so it works stronger and faster.

also, for those who are open-minded: for $99.99 (plus additional fees and service charges) I can show you other techniques on how to beat the system and live longer the natural way!

call now 1-800-U-SUCKER

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Posted: 19 September 2007 04:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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What makes you an expert on what is possible with electromagnetics, or magnet therapy for that matter? That’s a classic example. You feel confident in completely discounting something that you know little or nothing about, and you’re not going to spend any time researching it before you make, what in your mind, is a solid conclusion. And you can’t spend 90-99% of your time researching the information you already think is correct, and 10% or less researching the opposing viewpoint and expect to end up with a balanced viewpoint.

We don’t have any highways like the NAFTA Superhighway. If you’d read the article for more than a minute or two you’d realize that.
 
I know experts in the field of electromagnetics, and I’ve been told those technologies are real by honest men. Of course, weather control could be used for beneficial purposes, but wars have been won and lost due to weather conditions too. That technology is a powerful weapon.

My point with the above links is that most people don’t have a clue about any of that info. To my knowledge, those stories have had little if any coverage whatsoever, and still most people have never heard of them. Now, how many people right now don’t know what’s going on with OJ in Las Vegas? It’s on every damn channel.

We get a lot of BS news, while the biggest stories get little or no coverage. Some say, and I agree, that a situation like this OJ case is used to divert the public’s attention away from something else, in this case, maybe the latest amnesty bill that’s in the Senate right now.

Remember the phrase, “information is power”? If the people don’t have the information, they don’t have the power. If the government and corporations do, then they have the power. What direction is democracy headed in America if “power to the people” is just empty words?

[ Edited: 19 September 2007 04:27 PM by Stay openminded ]
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Posted: 19 September 2007 04:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Stay openminded,

that had to be the most compelling argument on how magnetic therapy works. I mean, wow! Who can argue with that?

kudos to you my friend. you surely are a giant amongst midgets!

come on, take a bow and take your place at the throne of superior debating skills!!!

its the one right next to the throne of sarcasm, where I reside.

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Posted: 19 September 2007 05:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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I can explain how it works it in some detail, but I’m not going to bother. In this forum it will surely fall on deaf ears.

Truthaddict, you are pathetically ignorant and you have a wiseass attitude to boot. You have contributed nothing to this discussion but insults. I’m done. You’re not worth responding to any longer.

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Posted: 19 September 2007 05:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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ohhhhh, bah humbug!

I think you should explain it in “some detail.” Because anecdotal evidence and irrelevant issues like NAFTA and The Juice just doesnt cut it.

who cares if im not worth responding to if your responses are meaningless??? thats been the sole reason for my “wiseass” comments. why take the time to take you seriously when you offer nothing but junk?

*sniff sniff

I smell the MODS pulling out ole blue…

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Posted: 19 September 2007 05:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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explain how magnetic properties have healing effects on human flesh?

break the science down on us!

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Posted: 13 October 2007 05:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Stay openminded - 19 September 2007 05:22 PM

I can explain how it works it in some detail, but I’m not going to bother. In this forum it will surely fall on deaf ears.

That´s ok, we would be reading it, not listening to it…

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Posted: 01 February 2008 11:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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I guess this will only be read by another physics nerd fascinated by magnets, but here I go.  To stay openminded (assuming they ever revisit this), I have heard scattered reports about magnets working as well as prescription meds for arthritis pain.  That’s interesting, I’ll admit.  However, I must take serious exception to something stated in your opening post, along the lines of North magnetic poles heal and South poles inflame.  I am familiar with magnetic monopoles because they are sometimes used in junior physics assignments (on paper).  They are not used in senior physics assignments because they aren’t real.  They don’t exist.  Every magnet that exists in the actual universe has both a North and a South pole.  Magnetic field lines link the poles, and have a directionality.  There aren’t “North” lines and “South” lines or energy.  There are just field lines representing how a second free magnet would orient itself in the field.  I’m not saying this precludes the method from working, just that either your source didn’t have a very good understanding of magnetics or you misunderstood parts of their theory.  Perhaps they were suggesting which pole should be nearest the injured area, and thus which direction the field lines should point (either into or out of the affected area).  There, now I feel better.

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