Religion & Child Abuse
Posted: 18 September 2007 04:11 PM   [ Ignore ]
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My coworkers sent an email around that said, “incase you are having a bad day, this should put a smile on your face.”

http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=9e7c4b40cf5a13cea6ca

Personally it made me sick.  I felt so sorry for that cute little girl.  I didn’t even know there was a godtube.com.  I’m sure you are all familiar with Richard Dawkins position that religious labeling & indoctrination at a young age should be concidered child abuse.  He advocates raising consciousness to these abuses.

I’m wondering if this position falls into the category of a militant Atheist view or if other humanists agree with Richard & me, that this is a form of child abuse?

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Posted: 18 September 2007 04:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Well, I can’t say that I agree that trying to teach your own values, even if they are wrong, to your children is itself child abuse. Admitting that allows pretty much anyone to claim that anything they disagree with should not be taught to children as it is abusive to do so. Now, extreme religion often indoctrinates children in ways that are abusive, as did Soviet communism and probably other nominally secular ideologies. And teaching your children to take comfort from false beliefs, to judge others for not sharing their beliefs, to fear hell, etc are all doing a disservice to children. I am a believer that teaching them to think for themselves and to be skeptical of even my own dicta is the safest and fairest bet. But I am very leary of labeling the teaching of ideas per se, even ideas I don’t personally like, as abuse.

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Posted: 18 September 2007 04:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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I don’t see that as religious abuse.  Now IF he had scolded her for not being able to quote it and frightened her with threats of hell and/or alike, called her a sinner, and anything else that could be thought of, much like the Jesus Camp does, then that would be without a doubt abuse.  So, she’s quoting a mythical poem.  It’s no worse than having a child quote Shakespeare or Dr. Suess.  Now, she probably doesn’t understand it as being poetry, because her parents probably taught her that it is truth.  Now that is a disservice to her, but not abuse.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 20 September 2007 01:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Watching the beginning of how to brainwash your own child into believing that fairy tales are real and its okay to lie.

Thus here lies the key that trains young minds into thinking your way and eventually training them to go out and hate, kill, maim, destroy and become bigots all in the name of a “wonderful loving just god.”

It may not be child abuse but it is taking away the civil rights of a small child by pointing that child’s thinking toward negative thoughts and misusing that child for one’s own selfish ideas which is not much better than owning a slave to do your bidding.

Consider the little girl’s mind already destroyed and she is now the living dead, a zombie. She would have been better off brain dead because actually now she is.

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Posted: 20 September 2007 02:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Holely Goat - 20 September 2007 01:37 PM

Watching the beginning of how to brainwash your own child into believing that fairy tales are real and its okay to lie.

Thus here lies the key that trains young minds into thinking your way and eventually training them to go out and hate, kill, maim, destroy and become bigots all in the name of a “wonderful loving just god.”

It may not be child abuse but it is taking away the civil rights of a small child by pointing that child’s thinking toward negative thoughts and misusing that child for one’s own selfish ideas which is not much better than owning a slave to do your bidding.

Consider the little girl’s mind already destroyed and she is now the living dead, a zombie. She would have been better off brain dead because actually now she is.

Now I would have to disagree with that last statement.  The little girl has the potential to do just about anything.  She could, as gets older, run into ideas and beliefs that run contrary to what her parents have taught her and cause her to change her view/religion.

Is the possibility that she will follow the same path that her parents are following high?  Yes.  But not set in stone.

Anne

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Posted: 20 September 2007 02:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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mckenzievmd - 18 September 2007 04:30 PM

Well, I can’t say that I agree that trying to teach your own values, even if they are wrong, to your children is itself child abuse. Admitting that allows pretty much anyone to claim that anything they disagree with should not be taught to children as it is abusive to do so. Now, extreme religion often indoctrinates children in ways that are abusive, as did Soviet communism and probably other nominally secular ideologies. And teaching your children to take comfort from false beliefs, to judge others for not sharing their beliefs, to fear hell, etc are all doing a disservice to children. I am a believer that teaching them to think for themselves and to be skeptical of even my own dicta is the safest and fairest bet. But I am very leary of labeling the teaching of ideas per se, even ideas I don’t personally like, as abuse.


I agree.

Anne

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Posted: 20 September 2007 04:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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HG, she’s not brain dead.  She still has a lot of potential, regardless of the brainwashing.  We don’t know, at this point, what will happen between now and later in her life.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 20 September 2007 05:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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i grew up with religious family members and was even baptized Mormon.

look at me now!!!! im a raging atheist

the girl has a chance to learn for herself that there is no god without her parents telling it to her in just the same fashion as if they were saying he existed

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Posted: 21 September 2007 01:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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I grew up among Evangelical Fundamentalist and I now anti-dogmatism and anti-extremism, as well as 100% intellectual, yet somewhat tolerant of those who are liberal religiously.  So, she has a really good chance still, but then I also had atheists around to influence me too.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 21 September 2007 01:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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N

ow I would have to disagree with that last statement.  The little girl has the potential to do just about anything.  She could, as gets older, run into ideas and beliefs that run contrary to what her parents have taught her and cause her to change her view/religion.

Is the possibility that she will follow the same path that her parents are following high?  Yes.  But not set in stone.

Anne

Okay I with drawn the last part, but there are more theist than atheist and her chances of becoming one of “us” is low even though we seem to think there are lots of atheist there are but there are far more theist than us. And when most of us were programmed by our elders we were for the most part more than three years old to learn a whole Chapter from Psalms (Psalms 23) and in fact I was only required to remember short bible verses at age ten whereas most kids my age were taught simple verses at age seven or eight and not at age three.

It was obvious to me that taking a little girl at such a young age of three and having her remember the 23rd Psalms is a bit much and at this rate by the time she is thirteen her mind will be so full of the buy-bull that she will be theirs for sure unless by some odd coincidence she just some how happens to see a book that refutes the bible and becomes overly curious to read it, then perhaps she will escape her programming.
But the chances of that happening is like taking a chance of winning the lottery.

I am not saying it could not happen or it won’t happen, but over all the theist have far out numbered us and although we see people daily joining us by casting away their theist beliefs in reality if you look at the percentages they far exceed us in numbers because they have their brainwashing down to an art form while we don’t do anything in the way of trying to deprogram them or preach to them of our ideas other than debating with them they have to climb out of the pit of ignorance pretty much alone.

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Posted: 21 September 2007 08:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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You know, my grandmother tried to get me to memorize the 23 Psalm, but to this day I can only tell you bits and pieces.  I can quote very few Bible verses, at least not word for word. Now the Lorax…  I can quote him.  :D

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Mriana
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