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You are proof that god exist
Posted: 03 October 2007 04:35 PM   [ Ignore ]
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How does one approach the argument of another that claims that their evidence that god exist is you. That is, you ask them to present evidence of the existence of god, and they say “you are the proof that god exist.” I know this is wrong logic somehow, but I don’t know how to explain it. Please help me counter this logic accurately. Thanks.

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Posted: 03 October 2007 04:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Sounds to me more like poetry than a philosophical argument.

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Posted: 03 October 2007 04:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Yes, I think it’s fair to ask them what they mean by that. Are they being creationists? Argument from design? Or what?

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Posted: 03 October 2007 04:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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dougsmith - 03 October 2007 04:52 PM

Yes, I think it’s fair to ask them what they mean by that. Are they being creationists? Argument from design? Or what?

Creationist.

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Posted: 03 October 2007 04:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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morgantj - 03 October 2007 04:57 PM

Creationist.

Ah, well. Then you say that your existence is proof of Darwinian natural selection!

wink

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Posted: 03 October 2007 05:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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dougsmith - 03 October 2007 04:59 PM
morgantj - 03 October 2007 04:57 PM

Creationist.

Ah, well. Then you say that your existence is proof of Darwinian natural selection!

wink

I like this, but they even mentioned that god created monkeys so there would be man. But now I think I get the problem with this statement. If god created monkeys to turn into man, why wouldn’t he just create man and monkeys separately.

Creationism is not agreeable with natural selection correct?

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Posted: 03 October 2007 05:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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morgantj - 03 October 2007 05:32 PM

I like this, but they even mentioned that god created monkeys so there would be man. But now I think I get the problem with this statement. If god created monkeys to turn into man, why wouldn’t he just create man and monkeys separately.

Well, it doesn’t begin with monkeys, of course. It began several billions of years ago with the first self-replicating molecules. And then the question is why you need God at all? It’s all natural selection, all the way down.

morgantj - 03 October 2007 05:32 PM

Creationism is not agreeable with natural selection correct?

gulp

Unless you mean “creationism” in that God created the universe and then left it alone, then yes, creationism is not agreeable with natural selection. That is, creationists typically claim that there are “gaps” in Darwinian natural selection, in which God performed certain miracles.

If you want to read around a bit here, there are lots of websites. A good start is HERE.

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Posted: 04 October 2007 11:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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dougsmith - 03 October 2007 05:49 PM
morgantj - 03 October 2007 05:32 PM

I like this, but they even mentioned that god created monkeys so there would be man. But now I think I get the problem with this statement. If god created monkeys to turn into man, why wouldn’t he just create man and monkeys separately.

Well, it doesn’t begin with monkeys, of course. It began several billions of years ago with the first self-replicating molecules. And then the question is why you need God at all? It’s all natural selection, all the way down.

morgantj - 03 October 2007 05:32 PM

Creationism is not agreeable with natural selection correct?

gulp

Unless you mean “creationism” in that God created the universe and then left it alone, then yes, creationism is not agreeable with natural selection. That is, creationists typically claim that there are “gaps” in Darwinian natural selection, in which God performed certain miracles.

If you want to read around a bit here, there are lots of websites. A good start is HERE.


Thanks Doug.

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Posted: 04 October 2007 12:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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That is a good link Doug.  I wish I knew a creationist.  I’d send them the link.

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“It is the tension between creativity and skepticism that has produced the stunning and unexpected findings of science.” ~ Carl Sagan

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Posted: 04 October 2007 03:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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I know some Creationists, but they don’t have computers.  In fact, except for a phone, TV, and electricity, they don’t have much by way of anything modern.  rolleyes  Don’t ask.  Their answers will be off the wall, but the best and I guess a more reasonable response is that they see no need for computers or the internet, until they add that the information on them is not worth anything and as for news, they figure they hear everything from Faux news.  rolleyes

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Posted: 05 October 2007 05:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Mriana - 04 October 2007 03:08 PM

I know some Creationists, and as for news, they figure they hear everything from Faux news.  rolleyes

haha!
the Fox Noise Channel!

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Posted: 05 October 2007 05:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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LOL  That’s a good name for the Faux channel too.

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Mriana
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Posted: 10 October 2007 05:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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yes it can be very hard to debate or argue philosophical points with many creationist.  ” you are proof that god exists”. Its totally flawed, how do they know its proving there god and not Zeus, Rah or any number of deity’s that supposedly had relations with humans.  And it does not prove that god had anything to do with it.  There is no “made buy god” tag on anyone I’ve seen. Its anther wild idea that sounds endearing but is like saying lightening is proof of Zeus, cause Zeus makes lightning.

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Posted: 10 October 2007 08:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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My six year old asked me what God is the other day and I found myself saying it is the goodness and kindness in people.  I really have no idea where that came from, but it sounded good at the time and it stopped his incessant questioning for the moment.  It’s all in how you interpret the word “God,” I guess.

Vanessa

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Posted: 10 October 2007 09:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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misfit of joy - 10 October 2007 05:24 PM

yes it can be very hard to debate or argue philosophical points with many creationist.  ” you are proof that god exists”. Its totally flawed, how do they know its proving there god and not Zeus, Rah or any number of deity’s that supposedly had relations with humans.  And it does not prove that god had anything to do with it.  There is no “made buy god” tag on anyone I’ve seen. Its anther wild idea that sounds endearing but is like saying lightening is proof of Zeus, cause Zeus makes lightning.

Exactly.

I like that “it’s like saying lightening is proof of Zeus, cause Zeus makes lightning.” I might use that as a comparison next time.

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Posted: 10 October 2007 09:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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vanessa - 10 October 2007 08:07 PM

My six year old asked me what God is the other day and I found myself saying it is the goodness and kindness in people.  I really have no idea where that came from, but it sounded good at the time and it stopped his incessant questioning for the moment.  It’s all in how you interpret the word “God,” I guess.

Vanessa

Well, we know how the creationist are interpreting “God” but their faith is going to hold up as evidence.

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