You are afraid
Posted: 08 October 2007 12:38 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Hi,


When you are having a discussion with a religious person, and he says “You are just afraid of admitting the truth”, what is the best polemical reply to this?

Or alternatively, how do I finish the talk quickly, but without leaving him\the people around with the feeling that he won?

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Posted: 08 October 2007 01:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Well, you probably can’t leave them without the feeling of victory since their faith assures them of that no matter what you say. I’d be tempted to point out that admitting the truth of being just animals who live and die and cease to exist utterly within an indifferent universe takes a lot more courage than admitting the truth that we’ll all be together again beautiful and well forever in Heaven. Who’s afraid?

[ Edited: 08 October 2007 03:26 PM by mckenzievmd ]
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Posted: 08 October 2007 02:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Afraid of giving up childish fairytales? As Brennen asks, Who’s afraid?

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Posted: 08 October 2007 02:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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An aphorism I came up with some years ago in a similar situation might apply:  “It’s better to search for truth than to declare it.”

Occam

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Posted: 08 October 2007 03:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Afraid of what?  Sometimes playing dumb is a good tactic.  If they try to explain, frustrate them and say that they don’t make any sense or that you don’t know what they are talking about.  The one that got my aunt was, “I have no concept of your “Path to Salvation”.”  It blew her away as she was totally baffled how someone could not comprehend her ideology.  I didn’t have the heart to tell her that it’s all just human concepts.  LOL

Um… truth be known, I really don’t understand any of her religious concepts.

[ Edited: 08 October 2007 03:24 PM by Mriana ]
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Posted: 08 October 2007 04:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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wandering - 08 October 2007 12:38 PM

Hi,

When you are having a discussion with a religious person, and he says “You are just afraid of admitting the truth”, what is the best polemical reply to this?

Or alternatively, how do I finish the talk quickly, but without leaving him\the people around with the feeling that he won?

“How can I be afraid of something you have failed to prove; what is there to admit?”

Assuming you are talking about the God hypothesis or something in that nature, ask them, “are you afraid to admit that unicorns are polka-dotted and their breath always smells like mint?”

How can you admit something that there is no basis to prove? With gravity we cant give a unified theory but we can drop an apple on someones head. What can you do to prove God exists? How can you validate any of its attributes?

The reverse is: how can we validate that the attirubutes are severely flawed? Now we can talk about the problems of free will, evil, suffering, complexity, etc.

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Posted: 08 October 2007 08:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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wandering - 08 October 2007 12:38 PM

Hi,


When you are having a discussion with a religious person, and he says “You are just afraid of admitting the truth”, what is the best polemical reply to this?

Or alternatively, how do I finish the talk quickly, but without leaving him\the people around with the feeling that he won?

To such a question, I would begin some simple deconstruction through a socratic method of dialog until they contradict themselves or must once again depend on their evidence-less “faith.”

Them, “You are just afraid of admitting the truth.”
You, “The truth being…?”
Them, “That god created the heaven and earth, and he will save you if you ask him for forgiveness of your sins”
You, “how do you know this to be so?”
Them, “it’s all in the bible”
You, “how do you know everything in the bible is true?”
etc…

This could go longer then you want though. Depends on how well and fast you can force them into a contradiction or into their famous escape of faith.

If you want something more quick, just make it down and dirty with a dash of alliteration. “That is true, I am afraid. I’m afraid that YOU… don’t want to admit that the truth is, there is no evidence of a god, life everlasting, or heaven and hell. Therefore, you rely on your faith, in which denial and delusiveness does dwell.

That may be kind of harsh, but hey, I’m not one to sugar coat. smile

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Posted: 08 October 2007 09:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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You don’t need a polemic statement, all you need is to define truth.  There are a few different definitions but the one i’d pick is this:

“a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle.”

I’d ask “Is your or anyone’s god any of these?”  No, they answer if they are at all honest. 
Ok, then.  Please don’t confuse your belief or doctrine with truth.

(“But it’s truth to me.” ... “Enjoy your reality..with a twist.  I like mine straight up. Thank you.”)

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Posted: 10 October 2007 08:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Occam - 08 October 2007 02:41 PM

An aphorism I came up with some years ago in a similar situation might apply:  “It’s better to search for truth than to declare it.”

Occam

A nice one, but what is the relevancy?

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Posted: 11 October 2007 03:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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I read the title of this thread, and immediately thought, “Oh, shit, I am?!”

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Posted: 11 October 2007 07:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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godblessgeorgecarlin - 11 October 2007 03:30 AM

I read the title of this thread, and immediately thought, “Oh, shit, I am?!”

Ha!

Hope not!

wink

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Posted: 11 October 2007 10:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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wandering - 08 October 2007 12:38 PM

When you are having a discussion with a religious person, and he says “You are just afraid of admitting the truth”, what is the best polemical reply to this?

I would never be condescending, egotistical, conceited, supercilious or arrogant (take your pick) enough to make such a claim on truth.  zipper

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Posted: 11 October 2007 08:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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wandering - 10 October 2007 08:33 AM
Occam - 08 October 2007 02:41 PM

An aphorism I came up with some years ago in a similar situation might apply:  “It’s better to search for truth than to declare it.”

Occam

A nice one, but what is the relevancy?

I see it as meaning you are willing to search for the truth while he is declaring “truth”.  And truth is not something that can be determined by executive fiat.  His job must be to give data that leads to proving his truth, not just saying he has it and you are afraid to admit it.

Occam

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Posted: 11 October 2007 09:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Pick up the nearest heavy blunt object (fists will do in a pinch) and start beating them with it about the head and shoulders shouting maniacally now who’s afraid, beeeeyoch! Or else just let it be…sticks and stones and all that.

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Posted: 13 October 2007 12:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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How about “I know you are but what am I?”  :tongue:

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Posted: 13 October 2007 02:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Haha, your mom’s afraid!

[ Edited: 13 October 2007 04:15 AM by godblessgeorgecarlin ]
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