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History Channel Doc on 9/11 Conspiracies now online, plus more 9/11 refutation sources:
Posted: 09 October 2007 04:34 PM   [ Ignore ]
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9/11 Conspiracies: Fact or Fiction? 

I also uploaded the pbs documentry “How the Towers Fell” which explains the mechanisms for the collapse of the towers. 

I have also posted a list of resources on my site refuting the conspiracy claims.  Check them out.

While you’re at it, you might also want to check out The Skeptics’ Guide to the Universe podcast. 

[ Edited: 09 October 2007 04:37 PM by Havermayer ]
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Posted: 11 October 2007 05:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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The skeptic’s guide to the universe is one of my favorite podcast.  I haven’t ever really paid much attention to the 9/11 conspiracies but will check them out later. I’m about to make chili and that seems more important.

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Posted: 11 October 2007 07:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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I checked out your web site and you have a lot of good info on there. I’ve bookmarked it and will check more out later. I did have a problem with the radio archive page though, no radio show showed up, just the side links. Anyway very cool page.

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Posted: 11 October 2007 07:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Looks like a great site, Havermayer. Thanks!

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Posted: 02 November 2007 10:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Seeing as how the senior level Bush Whitehouse was already planning the reconstruction of the post invasion of Iraq before 9/11, what is the impetus for the conspiracy?

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Posted: 03 November 2007 04:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Skeptivedave.  The PNAC had made a statement prior to 9/11 that all the government needs is a new Pearl Harbor.  Bingo!

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Posted: 03 November 2007 08:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Sandy Price - 03 November 2007 04:28 AM

Skeptivedave.  The PNAC had made a statement prior to 9/11 that all the government needs is a new Pearl Harbor.  Bingo!

Right. To sell the war to the congress and public. Washington was going to frighten them both with bogus claims of Iraq’s WMD program with or without a new “Pearl Harbor”. 9/11 just fell into their lap. A new Pearl Harbor would also benefit the administration in attaining other PNAC policies besides the invasion of Iraq.

Also consider the time involved in dreaming up and the implementation of this plan. The pilot training alone would take well over a year and all of this would have to happen long before W and his cronies came to power in office.

The risk of a leak and all the people involved to carry out this plan is enormous as well. The outcome is chancy; what happened over Pennsylvania could’ve happened on all the planes. If a leak did get out, which is almost certain to happen, it would practically tarnish and end the Republican party.

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Posted: 04 November 2007 04:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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There have been many books written by our CIA and FBI personnel who came up with some interesting facts about an Islamic push for power.  It may have started when Israel was given their own nation in the middle of Islamic territory.  The fact that America pushed for the formation of Israel and that an Egyptian American had returned to Egypt loaded for a war against American values.  It was featured in a BBC documentary called “The Power of Nightmares” which certainly gave the motive for many attacks by Islam to America and Israel.  A book by Michael Scheuer was published called “Imperial Hubris” explained a lot of reasons for 9/11.  Scheuer was a specialist in Afghanistan history and had been a CIA agent there for years.  Scheuer had reported to the White House starting with Bush 41 that the Middle East wanted our troops off their land.  The story goes on and on and nobody in D.C. gave a damn as they wanted that oil in Iraq.  This whole movement for an American empire has been a plan since the end of WW2.  It took a group of Neoconservatives to wait for the opportunity to start their One World Order. 

Many of us who have researched this entire problem realized that Bush 43 was simply a well-trained puppet of the Neoconservatives and many of us warned back in 1998 when Bush was being promoted, to stop this man who was running as a Christian to pull the wool over the eyes of the GOP. 

People have known for years that our voters have been dumbed by bad schools and television and that they would buy the short cut of having a Christian lead the nation in hopes of a Theocracy.  Many of us saw Bush 43’s face when those planes flew into the Twin Towers. 

“The Power of Nightmares” was shown on the History Channel all over Europe and South America but was never shown in America.  I had to order a copy of the DVD on line and it made 9/11 very clear to many of us. 

I don’t care if you believe in nothing but what you have been told by the White House or you might need a deeper research that will be exposed in the next 20 years. My problem is my age and I won’t be around in 20 years.  There are many terrible things done by our own government in our desire to lead the world and the American people are too lazy to research as they might miss “American Idol.”

The first book to be written after 9/11 was called “Against all Enemies” by Richard Clarke.  Mr. Clarke spent 20 years combating terrorism.  He served 7 Presidents in counterterrorism.  He was in the White House on the morning of 9/11 and kept a log of the entire morning. 

Michael Ruppert did enough research on 9/11 to put together a timeline from a dozen people who were there with their own logs and trying to put all this together with the 9/11 Commission Report is absolutely impossible.

The only thing missing was the actual source that OBL was involved and why.  That is where the documentary of “The Power of Nightmares” came in.  But I don’t expect anyone to care enough about this mess to read all the books on the history or manipulations between the White House, the neoconservatives and how we sat around looking like fools waiting for an action that the White House could use.

I gave up on the White House corruption, how easily the Congress went down on their knees to the new Christian God named Bush.  I’m at the point in my long live to simply not give a damn.  I see every 2 years the way Americans vote and realize we don’t give a damn for our Liberty.  I was inspired by listening to a speech by Edward Kabash at the Atheist Alliance convention in Virginia in September who explained how necessary it is to get our American government back to the Constitution and out of the hands of the religious right.  He triggered a renewal of my interests in America freedoms. 

I don’t give a damn what anyone believes caused 9/11.  The years following the disaster I read and reported on the many books who had tried to join in the research.  I ran into many who simply did not want to take the time to understand 9/11. 

We are facing a national election in 2008 and the American people will continue to demand another Christian white house.  I will shrug and ignore it.  I am the first to admit that much of the information after 9/11 was done to make money on the victims and their families and the information was not as accurate as it should have been.  But I’ve been involved in politics since Dewey and have been in the habit of reading everything possible on what makes D.C. tick.  It hit a new low starting in 1989 and has gone down hill from there through Bush/Clinton/Bush all of whom could have stopped all the terrorism seen during their administrations.

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Posted: 04 November 2007 09:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Sandy Price - 04 November 2007 04:29 AM

There have been many books written by our CIA and FBI personnel who came up with some interesting facts about an Islamic push for power.  It may have started when Israel was given their own nation in the middle of Islamic territory.

The illegally Occupied Territories of Israel include a very important natural resource….....water. Israel will probably never give up the West Bank for this reason alone. Israel vs. Syria was about the headwaters of the Jordan which comes from Syria, Jordan and Lebanon.. The reason Israel holds onto the “Security Zone” they seized in southern Lebanon via invasion of ‘82 is because the region holds Mount Hermon which is a big part of the watershed that brings freshwater to the region…...a very arid region. A little farther to the north lies the Litani River but Shiite resistance drove the Israeli’s back and they didn’t get it. The West Bank sources are the only sources of freshwater for Israel. One of the occupation policies for Arabs in the West Bank forbids Arabs to dig wells. An Arab farmer on the West Bank has the same allotment of water for his farming that a Jewish city dweller in Tel Aviv gets just for drinking. Think about that. I get about 12 times the amount of water you get and you have to support a farm, animals and a family with the same amount of water that I get just to drink with. That’s oppression and anyone with 3 operating gray cells, Arab or not, can see the injustice in that.

The fact that America pushed for the formation of Israel and that an Egyptian American had returned to Egypt loaded for a war against American values.  It was featured in a BBC documentary called “The Power of Nightmares” which certainly gave the motive for many attacks by Islam to America and Israel.

Israel is just a client state for the U.S. in a region of the globe that contains the largest known reserves of oil. Control oil and you can control the world by controlling their access to it. It’s veto power and in the late ‘50’s the U.S. seized upon Israel as being an ally in this respect. Israel and pre-revolutionary Iran were called “the guardians of the Gulf” by U.S. planners. They guarded “our” oil. Israel is even more important since the fall of the Shah of Iran. Israel also has been very useful to the U.S. in their being used to give Third World dictatorships armaments, training, computers etc..at times when the U.S. could not do it directly. In ‘77 the U.N. issued an arms embargo on South Africa yet Israel acted as the main contact and conduit to the South African military for years.

 

A book by Michael Scheuer was published called “Imperial Hubris” explained a lot of reasons for 9/11.  Scheuer was a specialist in Afghanistan history and had been a CIA agent there for years.  Scheuer had reported to the White House starting with Bush 41 that the Middle East wanted our troops off their land.  The story goes on and on and nobody in D.C. gave a damn as they wanted that oil in Iraq.  This whole movement for an American empire has been a plan since the end of WW2.

I’ve been wanting to read that book. The U.S. has some 800 military bases around the globe. A lot of people want us off their land, not just the Muslims. Look into the grievances of the Japanese for instance or check out “Blowback” by Chalmers Johnson. Very interesting stuff. Towards the end of WWII U.S. planners did see that we would emerge as a sole superpower. New policies had to be written, George Keenan, and the focus was on the “Grand Area”. It’s just more U.S. imperialism.

I don’t care if you believe in nothing but what you have been told by the White House or you might need a deeper research that will be exposed in the next 20 years.

If that’s directed to me, don’t worry. I read and watch documentaries all the time. I take an interest in what is happening in the world and in the U.S. foreign policy board rooms and I don’t rely on the media.

My problem is my age and I won’t be around in 20 years.  There are many terrible things done by our own government in our desire to lead the world and the American people are too lazy to research as they might miss “American Idol.”

American what? See my last comment above.

But I don’t expect anyone to care enough about this mess to read all the books on the history or manipulations between the White House, the neoconservatives and how we sat around looking like fools waiting for an action that the White House could use.

Washington does what it wants to. Rarely does it have to wait for an oppurtunity to exploit.

I don’t give a damn what anyone believes caused 9/11.  The years following the disaster I read and reported on the many books who had tried to join in the research.  I ran into many who simply did not want to take the time to understand 9/11.

 
“They” don’t hate our freedoms. “They” hate our foreign policies and our desires to exert global hegemony.

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Posted: 04 November 2007 10:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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I don’t have time go through your entire post at this time.  But I was a junior in highschool when the United Nations granted the Jews their own country back.  Living in California where most of my friends and classmates were Jewish and told of the horrors of being push out of one nation after another and then exteminated in Germany and even Spain.  It was the horrors that make up our own Haloween myths, but this time it was current history. 

I think the problem came when the Jews made a paradise out of a desert mess.  Sure many Americans sent money, tools and help.  We did the same thing after several terrible earthquakes hit Mexico and other nations.  To quote Fred Thompson this mornsing on Meet the Press, Islam has a bone to pick with Israel and a bigger bone to pick with America.  If this was the reason the Taliban struck down our Twin Towers it still does not get Bush off the hook as the FBI and other agencies sent warnings to him that there would be airplanes flying into buildings.  A normal, sane President should have taken these warnings seriously.  To excuse him only shows how utterly careless the American citizens have become.

Israel is not the problem.  American troops on Muslim land IS THE PROBLEM!!!

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Posted: 04 November 2007 11:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Sandy Price - 04 November 2007 10:32 AM

  A normal, sane President should have taken these warnings seriously.  To excuse him only shows how utterly careless the American citizens have become.

W, and others, also ignored warnings about the vulnerability of flooding to New Orleans. I’m not trying to defend W or “let him off the hook”, I’m still waiting to see good evidence to support that 9/11 was thought up and carried out by him and his cronies.

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Posted: 04 November 2007 02:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Bush hasn’t the ability to order lunch let alone a major attack on America.  By ignoring all the warnings and arranging other things on that date of September 11, he could have easily been informed about the attack in time to prepare himself to cover the events.  This investigation is far from over and almost daily new information is coming in.  We must be patient and simply try not to elect any one from the Bush Administration in 2008.  I believe that many in D.C. are aware of this possible involvement and all the House members running for reelection are backing away from Bush in droves.

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Posted: 11 November 2007 03:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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@11:24 the PBS video has vertical columns for the core and perimeter waving around made to look flimsy and says:

“Like free standing stilts until Robertson tied them together with floor trusses.”

That statement is a LIE.  The core columns were connected by horizontal beamns and the entire core could have stood without the perimeter columns and the floor slabs.  This simulation shows the core with its beams and the rest of the building transparent and then makes the horizontal beams transparent at 2:52.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cddIgb1nGJ8

But how were the floor trusses attached to the perimeter?  The perimeter columns were connected horizontally by “spandrels” all of the way across the building.  So even if the floor slabs collapsed the spandrels would still be there.

This picture shows the “flimsy” perimeter columns and the spandrels with a truss connected to the spandrel.

e.jpg

@12:02 the PBS video shows a graphic of lots of trusses connected along the spandrels so why weren’t they shown at 11:24?

@25:51 you see the next lie and internal contradiction.  The graphic shows individual floor trusses falling which is IMPOSSIBLE.  Notice you do not see the concrete floor slab. @11:34 you can see floor assemblies with rebar connecting across trusses.  So how could on individual truss fall?  Either it would be held up by others or pull others down.  At 11:46 you can see how the rebar went up and bent.  Where he puts his hand is where the concrete would be poured.  So the loop of the truss was frozen into the concrete so a truss would have to crack the concrete to fall individually.

A fatal flaw in Eagar’s theory, is that the tops of the trusses were embedded in the concrete slab, so even if a truss was heated to the point of failure, even if it was dripping molten steel, the concrete slab would still hold the truss up and it could not possibly fall as indicated in the animation. If one truss failed, its load was redistributed to the concrete slab and all the remaining trusses associated with that slab. So the failure of one, or even many trusses, does not lead to overall failure. There is absolutely no way that the trusses could collapse one after the other, as claimed by Eagar. Here is a quote from (a section on the WTC in) Multi-Storey Buildings in Steel [1], by Godfrey

http://guardian.150m.com/wtc/small/nova.htm

Found a site with the actual animation shooting it full of holes.

You don’t know about and haven’t investigated stuff that was shot down years ago.

Then you wonder why the people you accuse of being “conspiracy theorists” won’t go away.  I don’t give a damn about any conspiracies.  Physics that does not make sense just doesn’t make sense.  You have to close your eyes and turn off your brain and do no research to not notice this nonsense.

psik

[ Edited: 11 November 2007 09:58 PM by psikeyhackr ]
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Posted: 23 November 2007 10:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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It looks like someone has been researching mass distribution of the buildings but for potential energy reasons that I got on Greening’s case about.

A Swedish Electrical Engineer.  I guess American structural engineers can’t be bothered.

http://911research.wtc7.net/papers/urich/MassAndPeWtc1.htm

http://911research.wtc7.net/papers/urich/calcMassAndPeWtc1.htm

http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=31763#31763

It looks like I’m going to have to start pouring over data and do a bunch of number crunching.  GROAN!

I have been ignoring stuff marked wtc7. For some strange reason I assumed it had to do with building 7.

Silly Me!

psik

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Posted: 05 December 2007 04:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Sandy Price - 04 November 2007 04:29 AM

There have been many books written by our CIA and FBI personnel who came up with some interesting facts about an Islamic push for power.  It may have started when Israel was given their own nation in the middle of Islamic territory.  The fact that America pushed for the formation of Israel and that an Egyptian American had returned to Egypt loaded for a war against American values.  It was featured in a BBC documentary called “The Power of Nightmares” which certainly gave the motive for many attacks by Islam to America and Israel.  A book by Michael Scheuer was published called “Imperial Hubris” explained a lot of reasons for 9/11.  Scheuer was a specialist in Afghanistan history and had been a CIA agent there for years.  Scheuer had reported to the White House starting with Bush 41 that the Middle East wanted our troops off their land.  The story goes on and on and nobody in D.C. gave a damn as they wanted that oil in Iraq.  This whole movement for an American empire has been a plan since the end of WW2.  It took a group of Neoconservatives to wait for the opportunity to start their One World Order. 

Many of us who have researched this entire problem realized that Bush 43 was simply a well-trained puppet of the Neoconservatives and many of us warned back in 1998 when Bush was being promoted, to stop this man who was running as a Christian to pull the wool over the eyes of the GOP. 

People have known for years that our voters have been dumbed by bad schools and television and that they would buy the short cut of having a Christian lead the nation in hopes of a Theocracy.  Many of us saw Bush 43’s face when those planes flew into the Twin Towers. 

“The Power of Nightmares” was shown on the History Channel all over Europe and South America but was never shown in America.  I had to order a copy of the DVD on line and it made 9/11 very clear to many of us. 

I don’t care if you believe in nothing but what you have been told by the White House or you might need a deeper research that will be exposed in the next 20 years. My problem is my age and I won’t be around in 20 years.  There are many terrible things done by our own government in our desire to lead the world and the American people are too lazy to research as they might miss “American Idol.”

The first book to be written after 9/11 was called “Against all Enemies” by Richard Clarke.  Mr. Clarke spent 20 years combating terrorism.  He served 7 Presidents in counterterrorism.  He was in the White House on the morning of 9/11 and kept a log of the entire morning. 

Michael Ruppert did enough research on 9/11 to put together a timeline from a dozen people who were there with their own logs and trying to put all this together with the 9/11 Commission Report is absolutely impossible.

The only thing missing was the actual source that OBL was involved and why.  That is where the documentary of “The Power of Nightmares” came in.  But I don’t expect anyone to care enough about this mess to read all the books on the history or manipulations between the White House, the neoconservatives and how we sat around looking like fools waiting for an action that the White House could use.

I gave up on the White House corruption, how easily the Congress went down on their knees to the new Christian God named Bush.  I’m at the point in my long live to simply not give a damn.  I see every 2 years the way Americans vote and realize we don’t give a damn for our Liberty.  I was inspired by listening to a speech by Edward Kabash at the Atheist Alliance convention in Virginia in September who explained how necessary it is to get our American government back to the Constitution and out of the hands of the religious right.  He triggered a renewal of my interests in America freedoms. 

I don’t give a damn what anyone believes caused 9/11.  The years following the disaster I read and reported on the many books who had tried to join in the research.  I ran into many who simply did not want to take the time to understand 9/11. 

We are facing a national election in 2008 and the American people will continue to demand another Christian white house.  I will shrug and ignore it.  I am the first to admit that much of the information after 9/11 was done to make money on the victims and their families and the information was not as accurate as it should have been.  But I’ve been involved in politics since Dewey and have been in the habit of reading everything possible on what makes D.C. tick.  It hit a new low starting in 1989 and has gone down hill from there through Bush/Clinton/Bush all of whom could have stopped all the terrorism seen during their administrations.


Excellent post! Bravo!

I was in the home of Richard Gage, AIA Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth ( ae911truth.com ) this past Friday. We were interviewing him wrt his Blueprint presentation. The interview was amazing. I would find it very hard to believe someone who saw the presentation in full with an open mind could refute the research and documentation.

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Posted: 06 December 2007 03:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Thank you, Lil

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