“And it must grant liability protection to companies…”
Posted: 11 October 2007 09:22 AM   [ Ignore ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1161
Joined  2007-07-16

President Bush Discusses Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act Legislation

What a skillful way to acknowledge it was illegal: ask for retroactive immunity for those who assisted the government in breaking the law…

 Signature 

“Unsustainable systems can’t be sustained.” ~ Robert Jensen

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 October 2007 10:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4615
Joined  2007-10-05

The worst part is the Democrats appear to be caving on this issue. Rather than demand accountability and investigate illegal activities, they’re going to grant these lawbreakers immunity. We’re losing our rights one at a time, and very few people seem to care.

 Signature 

“In the beginning, God created the universe. This has made many people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.”
Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 October 2007 10:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  15300
Joined  2006-02-14

Let’s hope they show some backbone and reject it. Shameless.

 Signature 

Doug

-:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:-

El sueño de la razón produce monstruos

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 October 2007 10:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1161
Joined  2007-07-16

I would go just a step further and say the worst part isnt what the Democrats are or are not doing, but what the population is or is not doing. That to me is a larger issue. In an important way - but not all inclusive and probably not even the way he intended - James Madison was right when he first argued that the Bill of Rights would be a “parchment barrier.” Rights dont come from a piece of paper and simply having them down in writing is of no value if the populace wont protect them. What I am saying is we shouldnt rely on a political party to be that defense. If those papers mean anything to us - and they should - we should defend them ourselves.

 Signature 

“Unsustainable systems can’t be sustained.” ~ Robert Jensen

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 October 2007 10:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4615
Joined  2007-10-05

I’m open to suggestions, TA. How do we defend our rights if the people we elected to represent us fail to do so? How do we defend our rights when most people ignore what is happening, or justify the erosion in the name of safety?

 Signature 

“In the beginning, God created the universe. This has made many people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.”
Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 October 2007 10:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1161
Joined  2007-07-16

Well Im not suggesting guerilla activity.

Where a government has come into pwoer through some form of popular vote, fraudulent or not, and maintains at least in appearance of constitutional legality, the guerilla outbreak cannot be promoted, since the possibilities of peaceful struggle have not yet been exhausted. - Che Guevara in Guerilla Warfare

My motto for social activism - because I am firm believer that the best tool for change exists outside the political process - is:

1) Get Educated
2) Get Organized
3) Get Active

This means we should first have an understanding of the situation. We should observe what is going on and what our present condition is. Then we should organize with like-minded folks and get active in the manners we see fit.

So you might want to cruise the internet for domestic organizations that are trying to achieve what you would like to achieve. As far as how much you are willing to give, risk or sacrifice is a choice only you can make. Maybe your job and family life ties up more time than you are willing to give up. Then donate. If you can volunteer then do that.

 Signature 

“Unsustainable systems can’t be sustained.” ~ Robert Jensen

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 October 2007 10:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1161
Joined  2007-07-16

look at how an organized mass of agitation freed the six kids in Jena, LA

 Signature 

“Unsustainable systems can’t be sustained.” ~ Robert Jensen

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 October 2007 01:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
Moderator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4050
Joined  2006-11-28

Yes, I’m pretty frustrated by the lack of any real representation of my POV by my supposed representatives. Even in the liberal No. CA area, I can’t get positive responses to my letters. We all have our issues, and I don’t pester my representatives daily or anything. But I regularly write them about civil rights/liberties (e.g. this surveillance program, the Patriot Act), war issues (e.g. Blackwater), and science issues (unregulated pseudoscientific BS that kills people). I almost never get anything but platitudes, and it seems a crapshoot whether they vote “my way” on particular legislation. It’s better than when I lived in So. Carolina, but not as much as I’d hoped.

So I send my checkes to CFI, ACLU, and various other advocacy groups, but the best I can say is maybe things aren’t as bad as they might be, which isn’t very comforting. I agree guerilla action would only make things worse. We could do with a bit more non-violent action, but there isn’t a single cause that draws large numbers of people these days. The last protest I went to was during the Gulf War (6 of us outside of the post office in the town where Camp Pendleton is located).  *sigh*

 Signature 

The SkeptVet
The SkeptVet Blog
Militant Agnostic: I don’t know, and neither do you!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 October 2007 02:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1161
Joined  2007-07-16

brennen,

there is a single cause that draws the numbers. the problem is that modern protests are increasingly about multiple causes which turn off some people and shrinks the turn out.

first example is immigration reform. last year was impressive. you can bet your ass that if they added other causes to the agenda that the numbers would be smaller.

second example is february 15, 2003: the worlds largest protest in history. some 20 million people turned out. I went to alot of the dallas ones and noticed that that particular day was the largest. before and after the protests were more diverse in causes and have been smaller.

 Signature 

“Unsustainable systems can’t be sustained.” ~ Robert Jensen

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 October 2007 02:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1161
Joined  2007-07-16

also, its more than protests. those are used to unite people but social activism hardly stops there or at writing letters.

thats another important point that needs to be made

 Signature 

“Unsustainable systems can’t be sustained.” ~ Robert Jensen

Profile