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Huckabee on the signers of the Declaration of Independence
Posted: 23 October 2007 07:33 AM   [ Ignore ]
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Most were clergymen.”

“Most” apparently equals one out of 56.

:ohoh:

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Posted: 23 October 2007 11:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Doug,
You aren’t making the mistake of thinking the American electorate is interested in facts, are you?! Political theater relies very little on factual accuracy, and much more heavily on emotional impact. *sigh*

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Posted: 23 October 2007 02:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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The trouble is that these myths are linguistic viruses.  Once that stupid statement is made publically, it will be repeated in churches, discussions and just general conversation.  Unfortunately, few people question such statements but just accept them (no doubt because of their religious training), and soon is is general “knowledge”. 

Occam

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Posted: 23 October 2007 03:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Smacks of Truthiness.

Not to rain on Huckabee’s parade any further, but even his 1 out of 56 isn’t a very good representative of his point.

From the Princeton U website:

… [John Witherspoon] was a product of Scotland’s leading university in an age when the Scottish universities had a vitality possessed by no others in Great Britain. Although certain leniencies encouraged by the Scottish Enlightenment had offended his orthodox Presbyterianism, Witherspoon introduced to Princeton, and through it to other institutions, some of the more advanced ideas of that movement.

An Enlightenment Man!

His name is rightly identified with certain attitudes and assumptions, considered to be of importance in the development of our national life, that are associated with what is known as the Common Sense Philosophy. (“Common Sense” you say? cool smile )

Though a man of strong convictions, he showed no inclination to protect his students from exposure to ideas with which he disagreed. The many books he added to the library gave the undergraduate access to a wide range of contemporary literature, including authors with whom he had publicly disputed*. In his famous lectures on moral philosophy, not published until after his death and then probably contrary to his wish, his method was to lay out contending points of view and to rely upon persuasive reasoning to guide the student toward a proper conclusion of his own.

*- I believe Thomas Paine was one of these authors.

I think James Madison was one of his students, if memory serves, and he turned out OK.

Nice try, Huckabee.

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Posted: 23 October 2007 08:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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I think that Huckabee was only using 1 out of his 56 brain cells.  That guy desperately needs to read a book.

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Posted: 01 November 2007 01:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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I bet Huckabee doesn’t know these facts either:

*  A misconception about the Declaration of Independence is that it was the original document by which the Colonies articulated their rejection of British rule. In fact, the Lee Resolution had already declared independence on July 2.

*  Because the Declaration of Independence is dated July 4, 1776 (the date of its approval and adoption by the Continental Congress), many people believe it was signed on that date—in fact, most of the delegates signed the Declaration on August 2, 1776.

*  While the July 4 Declaration differed from the Lee Resolution in that it asserted unanimity, the abstaining colony of New York did not pass its own vote for independence until July 9.

Contrary to popular belief, the Declaration was not signed in public as a group. The delegates actually signed it in secret, little by little.

Huckabee is a clown and a panderer to the creationists. “Huckabee vehemently opposed a 2005 bill sponsored by Arkansas State Senator Jim Holt which would deny state benefits to illegal immigrants, calling it un-Christian.”

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Posted: 01 November 2007 10:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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If anyone wants to make an actual count for themselves, they can go here.

Of course, Huckabee may have a more accurate source for his information. :grin:

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“If there is no sufficient reason for war, the war party will make war on one pretext, then invent another… after the war is on.” - “Fighting Bob” La Follette

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Posted: 01 November 2007 02:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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dougsmith - 23 October 2007 07:33 AM

Most were clergymen.”

“Most” apparently equals one out of 56.

:ohoh:

Most of them were Baptists who believed in Separation of Church and State.  One of those “certain inalienable rights” they believed in was the right to a civil government that didn’t inter-meddle in religion.  They went back to their respective states and promptly destroyed most civil power over religion.

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Posted: 01 November 2007 02:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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PaineMan - 23 October 2007 03:35 PM

Smacks of Truthiness.

Not to rain on Huckabee’s parade any further, but even his 1 out of 56 isn’t a very good representative of his point.

From the Princeton U website:

… [John Witherspoon] was a product of Scotland’s leading university in an age when the Scottish universities had a vitality possessed by no others in Great Britain. Although certain leniencies encouraged by the Scottish Enlightenment had offended his orthodox Presbyterianism, Witherspoon introduced to Princeton, and through it to other institutions, some of the more advanced ideas of that movement.

An Enlightenment Man!

His name is rightly identified with certain attitudes and assumptions, considered to be of importance in the development of our national life, that are associated with what is known as the Common Sense Philosophy. (“Common Sense” you say? cool smile )

Though a man of strong convictions, he showed no inclination to protect his students from exposure to ideas with which he disagreed. The many books he added to the library gave the undergraduate access to a wide range of contemporary literature, including authors with whom he had publicly disputed*. In his famous lectures on moral philosophy, not published until after his death and then probably contrary to his wish, his method was to lay out contending points of view and to rely upon persuasive reasoning to guide the student toward a proper conclusion of his own.

*- I believe Thomas Paine was one of these authors.

I think James Madison was one of his students, if memory serves, and he turned out OK.

Nice try, Huckabee.

James Madison’s view of the religious conscience - that it should be submitted to absolutely and exclusively to God’s authority and that of the civil government had no legitimate authority whatsoever over it - came straight from John Witherspoon.  This view of the conscience is the cornerstone of strict separation of church and state.

Witherspoon did not formulate “separation of church and state”, but it was the logical outgrowth of his theory.  It took a while for Americans to think through all of the practical implications of the principle that the government had no power over religion.

Witherspoon was a closet Baptist, by the way.

[ Edited: 01 November 2007 02:17 PM by FredFlash ]
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Posted: 01 November 2007 02:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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FredFlash - 01 November 2007 02:04 PM

Most of them were Baptists ...

How does that square with data presented HERE? (Check the “religion” column).

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Posted: 01 November 2007 04:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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dougsmith - 01 November 2007 02:16 PM
FredFlash - 01 November 2007 02:04 PM

Most of them were Baptists ...

How does that square with data presented HERE? (Check the “religion” column).

Most of those men, like most Americans in 1776, were Baptists.  That is why the State Constitutions did not have near as much Jesus in them as the Colonial Charters.

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Posted: 01 November 2007 05:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Freddy,

Nobody here believes that they were all baptists.  Doug just proved this.  Unless you have some contrary evidence, you are just talking to yourself.

Sounds to me like you are saying, “Nu uh, no it isn’t, your wrong, boo hoo.”

You demonstrate that you are living in a fantasy world, and it is one of self infatuation Get over yourself.

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Posted: 01 November 2007 06:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Nobody here believes that they were all baptists.

I know I shouldn’t be wasting my time commenting on anything related to our poor misguided and ignorant Freddy, but I have a few spare minutes and will make this last comment here, hopefully for the benefit of someone.

One source I found stated that a mere 17% (or so) of male colonists admitted to even belonging to a faith.

Thomas Jefferson, who Freddy’s tiny group of Baptists claim as their own patron saint, did not believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ nor the existence of the Holy Trinity.  I could not find a Baptist sect that made these claims, rather they all seemed to believe in Jesus and the Trinity.  But I’m sure most people here were already aware of that.

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Posted: 01 November 2007 07:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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erasmusinfinity - 01 November 2007 05:35 PM

Freddy,

Nobody here believes that they were all baptists.  Doug just proved this.  Unless you have some contrary evidence, you are just talking to yourself.

Sounds to me like you are saying, “Nu uh, no it isn’t, your wrong, boo hoo.”

You demonstrate that you are living in a fantasy world, and it is one of self infatuation Get over yourself.

The evidence that most the founders were Baptists is the fact that they established, by law, the Baptist doctrine of “Soul Liberty.”  Judge them by their actions, not their words.  Use your brain.  Connect the dots.

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Posted: 01 November 2007 07:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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PaineMan - 01 November 2007 06:00 PM

Nobody here believes that they were all baptists.

I know I shouldn’t be wasting my time commenting on anything related to our poor misguided and ignorant Freddy, but I have a few spare minutes and will make this last comment here, hopefully for the benefit of someone.

One source I found stated that a mere 17% (or so) of male colonists admitted to even belonging to a faith.

Thomas Jefferson, who Freddy’s tiny group of Baptists claim as their own patron saint, did not believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ nor the existence of the Holy Trinity.  I could not find a Baptist sect that made these claims, rather they all seemed to believe in Jesus and the Trinity.  But I’m sure most people here were already aware of that.

Dude, Jefferson was an ardent advocate of the Baptist doctrine of “Soul Liberty.”  One who subscribes to Baptist doctrine is a Baptist.

The history books say that Daniel Carroll and his brother Charles were Catholics.  This is false, they were Baptists.  Both were ardent advocates of Separation of Church and State.  That ain’t Catholic doctrine, dude.  It’s Baptist!  Actions speak louder than words.  A man’s actions, not his words, reveal the truth about his religion.

[ Edited: 01 November 2007 07:18 PM by FredFlash ]
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Posted: 01 November 2007 07:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Occam - 23 October 2007 02:17 PM

The trouble is that these myths are linguistic viruses.  Once that stupid statement is made publically, it will be repeated in churches, discussions and just general conversation.  Unfortunately, few people question such statements but just accept them (no doubt because of their religious training), and soon is is general “knowledge”. 

Occam

Occam is probably right.

However I see a lot of WWW sites being skeptical.

I am across this one
[talking points—LINK] requoting the same Huckabee is wrong line…

I haven’t tracked down where he got this info—anyone know?

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