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Inside Job—9/11 Truth and other 9/11 Discussion (Merged)
Posted: 12 December 2007 09:50 AM   [ Ignore ]
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I have a new project I alluded to in an earlier post…I know many of you here do not believe 911 was an inside job or that the US Gov was responsible.

What I ask is this. IF any of you at the very least believe we have not been told the truth about what really happened on 911 that you please register here http://www.unitedfor911truth

I do not expect anyone to participate in the forums as we all have our home forums and groups…all I ask is that if you are in any way a 911 Truther that you register and post a brief 3 or 4 sentence bio in the forum for your state or country…

If there is a forum here that I haven’t seen that expressly deals with the events of 911 I would be happy to link it.

This project is new. There is very little activity so don’t let that turn ya off…when all is said and done we will have more than a million Truthers registered.


Thank you in advance to those that take the time.

[ Edited: 21 March 2008 07:05 AM by Thomas Donnelly ]
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Posted: 12 December 2007 12:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Why would I want to do that?  Why would I want to lend any credence to the question?

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PC

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Posted: 12 December 2007 01:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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While we are at it, let’s not rest until we get the truth on the Chupacabra, Sasquach, the Lockness Monster and the celestial teapot.  If only we had enough resources.  :tongue:

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“It is the tension between creativity and skepticism that has produced the stunning and unexpected findings of science.” ~ Carl Sagan

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Posted: 12 December 2007 04:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Sorry, Lil, but I see any possible hidden details of 9/11 as about as accessible as proof of a deity.  As such, I can’t waste my time worrying about it. 

Occam

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Posted: 12 December 2007 06:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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I was just listening to a CD from the God Delusion today where Dawkins discussed Cargo Cults and how quickly new religions form.  This thread reminds me of it.

Although….

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Posted: 12 December 2007 07:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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lil,
Some folks around here are just too skeptical for their own good.  There is a healthy skepticism and there is an unhealthy skepticism.  To deny your own hands in front of your own face is unhealthy.  I’m not saying the 9/11 case is the same.  But there are sufficient holes in the story to warrant a healthy dose of skepticism about the “official story”, especially as it concerns WTC 7—which has basically gone unexplained.  Buildings don’t fall like that for no reason.

retrospy - 12 December 2007 01:13 PM

While we are at it, let’s not rest until we get the truth on the Chupacabra, Sasquach, the Lockness Monster and the celestial teapot.

That is a bad analogy.  The difference is that we all saw what happened on 9/11.  And there literally was tons of evidence.  But it was somehow mysteriously destroyed, wisked-away, or papered-over with weak ratiocinations.  Another difference is that what happened matters.  That is why some people, like lil, care so much.  I wouldn’t call myself a conspiracy theorist, but I know a weak explanation when I see it.

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Posted: 12 December 2007 08:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Agreed with the majority here. I live in NYC and was here when this stuff happened. I know people who were in the towers. This conspiracy stuff is total BS, on a par with Elvis Lives and Area 51. It will never go away, simply because some mind-numbed people who ought to know better have made it their hobby.

Most of the people who worked on the pile were long-time NYC ironworkers, and the place was crawling with police and firemen, who are fervently loyal and lost hundreds. Many of the people who died have very powerful friends. The idea that there’s some sort of massive coverup here is simply ludicrous.

[ Edited: 12 December 2007 08:14 PM by dougsmith ]
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Posted: 12 December 2007 10:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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tinfoil-hat.jpg

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“In the beginning, God created the universe. This has made many people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.”
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Posted: 13 December 2007 06:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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I know many of you here do not believe 911 was an inside job or that the US Gov was responsible.

You’d have to include me in that group.

I relate it to all the conspiracy theories regarding the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.  Some “proud Americans” could not bring themselves to believe that the mighty US could be so totally surprised by an “inferior race”, so our government must have had a hand in it.  Sure, there were clues it was coming, but not sufficient to say anyone knew, allowed it to happen or even thought it was possible.

I think the 9/11 conspiracies fall into the same category.  I was in the US military for 10 years.  The government just isn’t that smart.

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Posted: 13 December 2007 06:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Michael Shermer likes to point out that many who believe that the administration could pull off this conspiracy with such precision and stealth also think this administration is completely inept.

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Posted: 13 December 2007 08:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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zarcus - 13 December 2007 06:20 AM

Michael Shermer likes to point out that many who believe that the administration could pull off this conspiracy with such precision and stealth also think this administration is completely inept.

Exactly, it is hard to believe that the most incompetent president in history could pull of a stealthy diabolical plan of this magnitude.

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Posted: 13 December 2007 08:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Pragmatic Naturalist - 12 December 2007 07:26 PM
retrospy - 12 December 2007 01:13 PM

While we are at it, let’s not rest until we get the truth on the Chupacabra, Sasquach, the Lockness Monster and the celestial teapot.

That is a bad analogy.

No, it’s not. Some time ago I read an article in the New Scientist, where a psychologist talked about the correlation between a belief in the supernatural and the conspiracy theories. I’ll try to look for it tonight. But I remember the research basically showed that those who believe in god, ghosts, etc., are more likely to believe that princess Diana’s car accident and 9/11 were inside jobs.

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Posted: 13 December 2007 09:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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... the correlation between a belief in the supernatural and the conspiracy theories

When put that way, it is not unreasonable.

They are both forms of anti-authority.  “Authorities” (scientists, the government, whoever) say something does not exist.  Some people feel a certain “power” (as in knowledge = power) or raised self-esteem in knowing something the “authorities” either don’t know or are denying.

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Posted: 13 December 2007 09:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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And actually my point of that statement was to show things that are obviously not real, that are perpetuated by myths, delusions and group think.  It doesn’t matter how many people search or how much technology and funding is used, the Lochness Monster will not be found.  Searches have been done many times and yet there is still another program on the history channel exploring these myths.  I assign this the same degree of certainty that a unicorn will not be discovered or that more land/sea hybrid fossils will be discovered.

The difference is that we don’t need to waste any more time looking for unicorns, but we should spend more time looking for land/sea hybrid fossils.  We should not spend money & resources looking for super megalomaniacle super genius underground government organizations with a likelyhood of unicorns, but we should use our resources to form beneficial public policy.

That being said, a petition is relatively harmless.  It is just a shame when genuin motivation needs to be wasted on non issues.

[ Edited: 13 December 2007 09:23 AM by retrospy ]
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Posted: 13 December 2007 09:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Some people feel a certain “power” (as in knowledge = power) or raised self-esteem in knowing something the “authorities” either don’t know or are denying.

Exactly.

I researched this phenomenon some years ago, and arrived at the same conclusion. Some people are drawn to conspiracies because they get strength and importance from belonging to a special group.  One day, I’ll re-post the paper.

BTW, lil, there is a whole thread in the Paranormal section about 9/11 and the “truthers.”

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Posted: 13 December 2007 09:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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There’s also a human tendency (biological?) to assume that effects are equal in importance to their causes. So if an effect is very far-reaching, it must have equally detailed and deep causes. E.g, it can’t have been that one lone fool killed JFK. JFK’s death was so important that there just MUST have been a massive conspiracy behind it.

... it can’t have just been that a small group of terrorist lunatics killed thousands of people and changed the world for the worse! There MUST have been a massive conspiracy behind it.

Etc.

Problem is that sometimes effects can have ramifications out of all proportion to their causes. For lack of a nail, a kingdom was lost, and all that ...

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