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Inside Job—9/11 Truth and other 9/11 Discussion (Merged)
Posted: 18 December 2007 10:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 46 ]
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psikeyhackr - 18 December 2007 09:44 PM

Here is an expert for you:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/cons-flash.html

The World Trade Center was 70% air.

ROFLMAO

He admits the steel was thicher at the bottom but says 1 1/2 inches.

Do some research, it was FOUR INCHES.

Science means UNDERSTANDING THINGS YOURSELF not trusting experts.

Don’t you think they had to figure out how much steel and concrete to put on every level of a 110 story skyscraper before they stared digging the hole for the foundation?  How many times have you heard the tons of steel mentioned on the impact floors in the last SIX YEARS.  A Center for Inquiry that doesn’t inquire for themselves is pretty funny.

psik

Besides the characteristics of the falling of the towers, what other evidence do you have to support an “inside job”? If the ev ents were recreated and a skyscraper fell exactly the same way as on 9/11….......then what?

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Posted: 19 December 2007 10:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 47 ]
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Many years ago I stumbled across something that was so horrific I couldn’t contain my thoughts and feelings on what I had discovered. I was overwhelmed with the need to talk about it. And you know, since then, that feeling hasn’t gone away.  The power of a cause is too simple a definition to put on how I feel about 911 because I don’t look at the issues surrounding it as a cause. It’s not a cause, it’s a crime scene in need of protection at the same time in need of exposure. I look at it with urgency, driven by a dire feeling in my gut. Move over Chertoff, my gut talks too and it’s growing louder.

The Truth movement has been a series of battles with little triumph, with most of those battles taking place on the inside, within our own ranks and our own minds. A turf war of sorts maybe? I get the feeling we are unknowingly and sometimes knowingly fighting each other, I have yet to discover what the prize of winning that fight would be. It’s a strange dynamic when you take a bunch of enlightened, astounded, talented, and pissed off people and put them together fighting for some righteous stake in history. 

What started as a small number of people openly questioning the events of September 11th, 2001 has grown into countless groups and individuals - not just across the country, but across the world. In fact many of the Truth groups outside of the US began before many if not most of the groups inside the US. The reality of this growth however, is that it has caused us fragmentation not cohesion. Instead of new groups forming due to growth factors and need, new groups have formed over relationships and growing pains within the movement. Ill feelings, misunderstandings, disagreements and starmanship have all played their parts in this fragmental process. It is almost as if we stopped feeding off of our desire to invoke Truth and began to feed off of each other in a frenzy to be the next best thing. The next cool kids for the camera.

I have serious issues with the truth movement, not as a whole, but with different aspects of the whole. Here comes the rant, I won’t apologize though, as I believe what I have to say is long over due in being said. I believe if people would be open to the message I hope to impart, cohesion can come of it and egos and fear can be set aside. I can only hope I say the right things in the right order so that we can move forward in our mission, together.

I have issues with those who desire and strive to make money off of being a Truther. If you sell something for a cause and say the proceeds are going to a charity, they damn well better go to that charity. It should also be made clear how much of the profits actually go to said charity and how much stays in the coffers and what exactly it will be used for. Accountability. We expect it from this Government, we should demand it from ourselves. Understandably, it is fair to recoup our own hard costs, but when we begin making it a business we have failed. Our “business” is Truth, remember? Let us not forget.

Another thing that really rubs me the wrong way is this leeriness amongst us. We have every reason to be wary, but we also need to not cross the lines into outright paranoia. We have become our own worst enemy, who needs to worry about Big Brother watching when the Truth movement is so stalled by our own inability and refusal to work together in an open and cohesive manner? Who are you? Do you have a name and face to the movement? Unlikely as most Truthers hide in the anonymity of the Internet, afraid for whatever reasons to let their names or faces be known. How does that strengthen us? Have we become hundreds of secret societies under the umbrella of the Truth movement? We do not need to disassociate ourselves from each other just because there is no unified agreement on the “how and who” of 911. Instead, we need to combine our strength and associate ourselves with each other under the common message of 911 Truth which in itself merely means that we want answers to our questions.

Do you have any idea how many of us there are? No one does. Do you know why? The answer to that is obvious. Fear. Get over it. There is nothing to fear from each other, nor is there anything to fear from outing yourselves in the public eye. How can we expose 911 Truth if we do not expose ourselves? Visibility keeps us safe. It is a part of our strength. It is also the only way to grow in a fluid manner versus this sluggish piece meal growth we have been experiencing. I am proud to be a 911 Truther. I do not hide. Additionally I have no need to be a star in this effort and if you do then you need to ask yourself why and then ask how you being a star is going to make our world one of Truth, ultimately generating the justice we all wish to see.  A collective has no leader. A collective is a team. The movement itself is the coach.

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http://www.unitedfor911truth.com

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Posted: 19 December 2007 11:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 48 ]
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People fascinate me.  grin

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“It is the tension between creativity and skepticism that has produced the stunning and unexpected findings of science.” ~ Carl Sagan

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Posted: 19 December 2007 12:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 49 ]
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skepticdave - 18 December 2007 10:19 PM

Besides the characteristics of the falling of the towers, what other evidence do you have to support an “inside job”? If the ev ents were recreated and a skyscraper fell exactly the same way as on 9/11….......then what?

If you pay attention to my posts you will notice I never talk about an “Inside Job”.

I am just saying it is physically impossible for the for a normal airliner to have produced the observed effects.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hblla0DYmZQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUKLOlIhang

psik

[ Edited: 19 December 2007 12:08 PM by psikeyhackr ]
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Posted: 19 December 2007 12:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 50 ]
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retrospy - 19 December 2007 11:37 AM

People fascinate me.  grin

The dumb ones can be momentarily amusing.

psik

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Posted: 19 December 2007 01:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 51 ]
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...most Truthers hide in the anonymity of the Internet, afraid for whatever reasons to let their names or faces be known.

Well, I can safely say that you have nothing to fear.  Nothing “conspiratorial” happened that day (well, except for the actual Saudi terrorists who conspired to hit the towers and the Pentagon).

I would bet my life and the lives of my three cats that no governmental agency is spying on you.  They are just grateful that you are chasing rainbows instead of really demanding accountability from this criminal administration (Iraq, Habeus Corpus, torture, rule of law).

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Posted: 19 December 2007 02:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 52 ]
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HappyHumanist - 19 December 2007 01:04 PM

I would bet my life and the lives of my three cats that no governmental agency is spying on you.  They are just grateful that you are chasing rainbows instead of really demanding accountability from this criminal administration (Iraq, Habeus Corpus, torture, rule of law).

That is the saddest part, in my oppinion.  That serious moral issues get overlooked or pushed aside.

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Posted: 19 December 2007 03:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 53 ]
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[ Edited: 31 January 2008 06:37 AM by zarcus ]
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Posted: 19 December 2007 05:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 54 ]
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zarcus - 19 December 2007 03:31 PM

Not only are those video’s pretty awful, but the second one says explicitly - “the facts of 9/11 point to a conspiracy of insiders

It goes on to mention - access to the infrastructure, ability to coordinate the demolitions with the airplane collisions, and the ability to cause a stand down of our air defenses.

If the quality of videos is so important to you please don’t waste your precious time communicating with me.  It never occurred to me to think about something that trivial.

If you can’t separate factual information from an individuals opinions in a video that is not my problem.

The time it takes an object to fall from a specific height is not difficult to compute.

You then divide the distance of 600 by that time to compute the velocity.

Then convert to mph if you prefer.  If that is too difficult for you, I’m sorry.

psik

PS - By the way, I didn’t make either of those videos.  It just occurred to me that that might explain some of your response.

[ Edited: 19 December 2007 05:55 PM by psikeyhackr ]
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Posted: 19 December 2007 05:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 55 ]
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[ Edited: 31 January 2008 06:39 AM by zarcus ]
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Posted: 19 December 2007 06:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 56 ]
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[ Edited: 31 January 2008 06:38 AM by zarcus ]
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Posted: 19 December 2007 06:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 57 ]
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Judging from the position of WTC7 in the satellite view of the first video I linked to I would say that material was going in the same general direction as the Winter Garden but it would only take a few degrees off to miss.  The first video I put up showed lots of material in that general area.

psik

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Posted: 19 December 2007 07:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 58 ]
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[ Edited: 31 January 2008 06:38 AM by zarcus ]
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Posted: 19 December 2007 08:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 59 ]
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zarcus - 19 December 2007 06:14 PM

Also, since it’s been quite awhile since I’ve involved myself in these debates (many years), would you mind pointing me in the direction of an official report on the distance, weight and number of the steel “girders from the north tower of the World Trade Center weighing about 4 tons each” as reported in the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUKLOlIhang

Thanks.

I have never seen an official report with that information.  The closest I ever saw to that was a FEMA report with pictures of debris.  I found that debunking a video that supposedly debunked 911 Mysteries.  This video said some pieces of the WTC stuck in a building couldn’t possibly weigh what 911 Mysteries said it did but I found the exact same FEMA photograph giving the same weight.  So if it was wrong then FEMA got it wrong.

This stuff is not about debating to me.  Debating is nothing but ego games.  This is analyzing a problem to get a solution and the NIST report doesn’t even specify the total quantity of concrete in the buildings.  It is a disorganized mess and I regard it as a snow job.  I get 83 hits for “wall panel” which is what they call those modules making up the perimeter columns.  I will have to check most of them to see if they specify the weights.  I know there were at least 12 types.

There are a bunch of them connected together in that first video by the Winter Garden and one sticking out of the roof.

psik

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Posted: 19 December 2007 09:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 60 ]
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[ Edited: 31 January 2008 06:39 AM by zarcus ]
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