erasmusinfinity - 28 February 2008 05:40 AM
Christmas was heavily discussed on this forum back in December.
I am sorry my intent was not to focus on Xmas, as you can see on the post, it came third, what I wanted to really comment about are ethics and Master Hitchens.
I couldn’t find the thread, so here is my essential perspective. Although I do not celebrate christmas as “christ"mas, I do respect the choice of most non-theists to celebrate christmas as a non-religious holiday.
that is your prerogative and I have no problem with it, there are 2 important points though, the first is Christmas is about Christ, that’s how it all started, Dec 25th is supposed to be His birthday. The second point is not only non-theists but good if not great # of theists also celebrate Xmas as non-religious holiday. My question is, since Xmas is getting to be more about partying and less and less about Honoring Jesus, not only for non-believers but for believers themselves, is it as an important Xtian date getting to be irrelevant and Christ along with it? the answer seems to be if not yes, that we are at least getting there. Considering the increasing irrelevance, why do we have to continue calling it a name that is turning into more of an empty shell?
I celebrate both the natural occasion of the Winter Solstice and Humanlight. I take whatever non-religious elements that I want from so-called christmas rituals and incorporate them into my solstice celebration, just as jews often do with hannukah. But I don’t like the word christmas and reject christian elements outright.
then why do you continue to refer to it as “ ‘Xmas’ “? what prevents you from calling it what it is to you: Winter Solstice and Humanlight Celebration? put an add on the newspaper and call for a major gathering. I might be wrong but it could be that if you in fact go for such label, that might cause you to be alienated and of course you don’t want that, you perhaps subconsciously prefer to stick with the masses. Who wouldn’t? I am by no means attacking you here but simply pointing that out due the masses unreadiness to confront such brand of perspective.
I can appreciate Doug’s rejection of the term “fear” and I don’t think that there is necessarily a direct sort of “fright” emotion involved in non-theists calling their solstice celebration “christmas.”
if one doesn’t believe in Christ that makes that name a decoy and cover. Maybe there is no feeling of fear or fright but there is one of alienation. Why so many atheists still refuse to come out? because one of the first consequences to them doing so would be an automatic alienation. That is a given in quite many regions or they at least think they will be alienated. Of course that might not be so obvious in highly intelectual environments.
More so, I think that feelings of needing to celebrate christmas, in all of its established ways, have more to do with in group out group pressures and enculturation.
True.
Of course, the midwinter is celebrated in various ways across world cultures that lie in regions of the world that are marked by strong summer to winter seasons. And there is nothing particularly religious about having a party or an intimate occasion with ones family at that time of year. But I do think that reflective non-theists ought to analytically consider christmas rituals, and do some dissecting.
couldn’t agree more 
and thank you.
. And I personally believe there is a God, just not the one that is messed up pretty badly in the OT. The back then scribes had to mix their personal stupid biased flavor in with His, and considering it’s an incompatible thing to do, they ended up with a mess on their laps.
You are very welcome, Daisy. I’m glad they were very helpful to you. *hug back*
