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The most important reason to support Barack Obama for president
Posted: 10 January 2008 10:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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I certainly like Kucinich as well, but I agree with what’s already been said in that his major role is to hopefully pull the nominee a tad bit left rather than to be the nominee.

Occam,

Yes! LOL

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Posted: 10 January 2008 11:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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Mriana - 09 January 2008 09:08 PM

And you think Clinton was any better than Reagan?  I don’t think so.

I certainly do.

Occam - 10 January 2008 12:39 AM

as far as Bill Clinton goies, he was the best Republican president we’ve had in fifty years. LOL

I agree with this. 

Mr. Clinton was a unique president.  He knew his position on liberal issues and stacked his cabinet with centrists and conservatives to provide a check & balance for his ego.  The only other president to take this approach was JFK.  I respect this, because the average person does not have the economic grasp necessary to make fiscal public policy.  You need to listen to economists and overcome your emotional biases.  I think our economy for the Clinton years stands for itself on this issue even though his skeptical methodology goes largely unsung.  Alan Greenspan talked about this in his book.

All the not killing Bin Laden accusations, well isn’t it convenient that hindsight is 20/20.  I prefer my presidents to hesitate before killing anything.

Bill also appointed some of the best Supreme Court justices still in office.  If you want to understand the importance the Supreme Court plays in social policy and the critical role the next president will have in the next 4 to 8 years on he balance of the Supreme Court, then listen to Ed Tabash’s (lawyer & atheist) speech on you tube—> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVm-epMMOMc

As for BJ’s – who doesn’t want one of those.  Lewis Black has a great skit on this, sorry I can’t find the You Tube link.  LOL

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Posted: 10 January 2008 11:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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George - 10 January 2008 07:41 AM

Call me a crazy, but even Dawkins, for example, owns a part of his success to his looks.

Umm… Does George have a thing for RD?  LOL

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Posted: 10 January 2008 12:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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I’d also like to add that I have not made up my mind on who would make a better President, Clinton or Obama. 

The concerns with Obama are that he is inexperienced and peddles false hope.  I do know that he exemplifies all the qualities of what the “Good to Great” book analyzed as the qualities that made the greatest business leaders.  I am sure he has specific goals and methods of action, but the general public will be turned away from these details.  That is why it is more beneficial to use the buzz word - pop culture campaign method.  I understand he made the decision that the US couldn’t wait 4 to 8 years for him to run for office.  The problems we face are eminent and need to be taken care of now.

The concerns with Clinton are that she is overly emotional and carries “womanesque” baggage.  Clinton did wait patiently for her chance to lead and made sure America knew she had the experience.  I doubt Clinton was unable to control her emotions.  It is more likely that she is passionate about specific issues, is capable of controlling her emotions, but took a political risk to make a comeback in the polls by showing she has a personal side.  The fact that this kind of a risk is necessary is testament to how easily the public can make pop culture decisions.  Her fault was that she was previously too stern and to the point that she was perceived as a grouchy robotic bitch.

I am extremely happy that Obama & Clinton both have early wins in the primaries.  This means that neither of them are more likely to snowball votes and run away with the nomination.  This is helpful because the candidates stay in the public critical eye.  Hopefully more critical information will surface so that our decisions will be based on more thorough information and the Democratic Party can nominate the best candidate for the job.

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Posted: 10 January 2008 01:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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retrospy - 10 January 2008 12:14 PM

I’d also like to add that I have not made up my mind on who would make a better President, Clinton or Obama.

I have to say that I’m essentially on the same page here.  Neither strikes me as great, but I’ll probably end of voting for which ever one wins the democratic nomination anyway.  (I think that we can safely assume that it will be one or the other and I’m glad because I think that they are two of the better ones.)

Honestly, they both seem to me to be, more or less, the same person with a different face.  Which is good, in a way, because it shows that the democratic candidates are more unified than the republicans are this go around.  So far, none of the republican candidates have managed a platform that, it seems, could appeal to republicans broadly.  And in comparing the platforms of the republican candidates, one can’t help but notice that they are more divided than are the democrats.  Frankly, I’d take any of the democratic candidates over any of the republican candidates who are running in this next election.  It is true that none of the democratic hopefuls are philosopher kings.  But they are, without an doubt, all the lesser of two republicrat evils.

Say, since we’re on the topic, what do you guys think of this…
Poll: Bullshit Is Most Important Issue For 2008 Voters

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Posted: 10 January 2008 02:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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retrospy - 10 January 2008 12:14 PM

The concerns with Obama are that he . . . peddles false hope. 

Have we really come to this? If we had looked at things like this in the 50s and 60s, the civil rights movement and women’s rights movement, which made these two candidacies possible, would never have happened. I knew our culture was in trouble in the mid-70s, when punk rock and disco replaced Dylan. In my view, the restoration of civic responsibility is as important as breaking the strangle-hold that money has on our politics.

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Posted: 10 January 2008 04:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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Oh yes Mriana.  Mike Gravel is also very good.  Probably as good as Kucinich.

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Posted: 10 January 2008 06:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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retrospy - 10 January 2008 12:14 PM

The concerns with Obama are that he is inexperienced and peddles false hope.

It’s not false hope.  I don’t think there is such a thing as false hope because as long as we are still breathing, there is always hope.  I’ve listened to him and I really feel he wants to at least make an attempt at making things better for this country. It may take some time for him to straighten out even a little bit of the mess that the Shrub has gotten us in, but I think he could do it.  Maybe not all of it, but some of it.  Some is better than nothing.  I don’t think Hillary can do that because she’s wavered on so many things, including the war.

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“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 10 January 2008 06:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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erasmusinfinity - 10 January 2008 04:48 PM

Oh yes Mriana.  Mike Gravel is also very good.  Probably as good as Kucinich.

Yes, he maybe good, but I don’t think he’s going to make it through the primaries though.  He hasn’t done enough campaigning to do so and few people have heard of him.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 10 January 2008 07:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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I have read Obama’s Audacity of Hope and, although I am sure it is a politically motivated book, it is a remarkably thoughtful examination of our issues.  What particularly strikes me about Obama is his ability to get inside the minds of even those who would oppose him the most, such as southern segregationists.

It exhibits what a dramatic change he would be from Bush.

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Posted: 11 January 2008 05:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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Dick Springer - 10 January 2008 07:00 PM

I have read Obama’s Audacity of Hope and, although I am sure it is a politically motivated book, it is a remarkably thoughtful examination of our issues.  What particularly strikes me about Obama is his ability to get inside the minds of even those who would oppose him the most, such as southern segregationists.

It exhibits what a dramatic change he would be from Bush.

Yes, this is an extremely important quality, and a rare asset. The ability to know others is essential to the kind of leadership Obama wants to provide, and he has it. I’ve already read several reporters commenting on this, which they have observed personally in his dealings with them.

Successful presidents have almost uniformly been people of vision who saw the big picture. To me, this just more proof that he has that kind of vision.

I like Hillary Clinton as a public official. She has an excellent reputation among her colleagues. She does work hard. I think she has some vision, too. But I don’t think she matches Obama in this regard.

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Posted: 11 January 2008 08:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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PLaClair - 10 January 2008 02:39 PM
retrospy - 10 January 2008 12:14 PM

The concerns with Obama are that he . . . peddles false hope. 

Have we really come to this? If we had looked at things like this in the 50s and 60s, the civil rights movement and women’s rights movement, which made these two candidacies possible, would never have happened. I knew our culture was in trouble in the mid-70s, when punk rock and disco replaced Dylan. In my view, the restoration of civic responsibility is as important as breaking the strangle-hold that money has on our politics.

I agree, a positive outlook and aspirations for the future are certainly not negative.  I especially like Obama’s response to this criticism before the NH primaries.  He said something like, “Did JFK look up at the moon and say nah… too far, false hope.  Did MLK look at the US and say nah… my dream is not possible, false hope.”  Positive outlooks and conviction are some of the attitudes that distinguish great leaders from good leaders.  I think the world has reached a point where a great leader is necessary.  Hillary Clinton is also a great leader; the difference is that their plans are tuned in slightly different ways.

I am a little fed up with partisanship.  I think it has gotten to the point where it bogs down the political system and progress is few & far between.  Unfortunately, it is a popular view to choose a side and stick to it, which has lead to a decline of moderates in the house & senate.  In the past, moderates have been able to band together and make the difference on partisan issues.  They are sort of the grease in the political machine.  Do people think we are on the verge of one political party becoming dominant or that this division will persist and moderates could play an important role again?  An interesting part of this issue is weather or not Michael Bloomberg will run as an independent for this reason and what effect this will have for both parties.

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Posted: 11 January 2008 02:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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mckenzievmd - 09 January 2008 03:31 PM

I don’t buy it that previous executive experience is much help, given the examples of Reagan and GWB who both had plenty and were horrible presidents.

You sure that’s not your ideology talking?  Both Reagan and George W. Bush managed their presidencies reasonably well and succeeded on the bottom line:  exercising their power to effect the policies they intended to effect.  Carter did not.

Prior experience is primarily useful in indicating the degree to which the person is likley to actually do what they say.

You don’t think it’s also relevant in knowing whether or not the person will have the capability of taking charge of his own administration?

I think it’s very difficult to predict who will do the job effectively, but I think ideology, positions on issues, and clarity of communication are all more important than precise prior job experience.

You’d better hope so if Obama gets elected.  Can you think of a U.S. president who took the job with less executive experience?

And I don’t agree at all with the characterization of Carter as “a disaster” as president.

He was a weak leader who tried to micromanage running the country (he started out personally double-checking the accounting he received from the budgeting office, for example).  Regardless of ideology, Carter was a disaster as a president.

FWIW, I see very little of substance to distinguish Obama and Clinton, and while I have a “gut-level” and completely irrational slight preference for him, I’d be happy with either over the Republican alternatives.

Any comment on the issue of issues?  The meaning of “change”?

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Posted: 11 January 2008 04:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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retrospy - 10 January 2008 11:28 AM
Mriana - 09 January 2008 09:08 PM

And you think Clinton was any better than Reagan?  I don’t think so.

I certainly do.

Occam - 10 January 2008 12:39 AM

as far as Bill Clinton goies, he was the best Republican president we’ve had in fifty years. LOL

I agree with this. 

Mr. Clinton was a unique president.  He knew his position on liberal issues and stacked his cabinet with centrists and conservatives to provide a check & balance for his ego.  The only other president to take this approach was JFK.

Who were the conservatives in Clinton’s cabinet?
And JFK’s White House was filled with Ivy League buddies.  It was an echo chamber that saw the Bay of Pigs invasion uniformly as a successful undertaking.  To Kennedy’s credit, he learned the lesson.

I respect this, because the average person does not have the economic grasp necessary to make fiscal public policy.  You need to listen to economists and overcome your emotional biases.  I think our economy for the Clinton years stands for itself on this issue even though his skeptical methodology goes largely unsung.  Alan Greenspan talked about this in his book.

Clinton ended up leaving the economy largely to Greenspan.  His original Clintonomics plan didn’t get the green light from Congress and he spend the rest of his administration compromising with the Republicans regarding the budget.

All the not killing Bin Laden accusations, well isn’t it convenient that hindsight is 20/20.  I prefer my presidents to hesitate before killing anything.

Does Kennedy get a pass on the Bay of Pigs and Clinton one for Bosnia (and his bombing of Iraq)?  Just curious.

Bill also appointed some of the best Supreme Court justices still in office.  If you want to understand the importance the Supreme Court plays in social policy and the critical role the next president will have in the next 4 to 8 years on he balance of the Supreme Court, then listen to Ed Tabash’s (lawyer & atheist) speech on you tube—> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVm-epMMOMc

As for BJ’s – who doesn’t want one of those.  Lewis Black has a great skit on this, sorry I can’t find the You Tube link.  LOL

A CEO who was found getting service like that in the company office would probably be forced to resign.  But the issue, of course, was not the sex but the perjury.  Say what you will about the GOP overreaching in its effort to take Clinton down, his behavior was reprehensible.  He has the option of refusing to answer the questions posed to him in the deposition.  He chose to deceive instead.  Clinton was pretty good on domestic policy thanks to his concessions to the Republicans, and so-so on foreign policy.  And through it all he was a used-car salesman at heart.

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Posted: 11 January 2008 06:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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retrospy - 10 January 2008 11:28 AM

As for BJ’s – who doesn’t want one of those.  Lewis Black has a great skit on this, sorry I can’t find the You Tube link.  LOL

this isn’t funny and you can do better. long face

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