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Risperdal-induced Non-stop Persistent Eyelid-twitching - My Experience of Eventually Get It Totally Cured By Acupuncture
Posted: 05 February 2008 05:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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The list of ‘alternative therapies’ you have mentioned in your reply is far too complicated for me, at least in terms of their methodologies, compared to the one I have tried myself and recommended to others. Besides, I believe that it is also rather unnecessary for me to argue further with you about the accomplished facts of the acupuncture treatment in terms of their established curative values which are readily verifiable from the related sources (both the physicians & the ones really get cured through such therapy), though they maybe deemed to be ‘scientifically worthless’ to you (nevertheless, that’s still the very truth). Whereas, the other formal therapies that I have tried repeatedly before as mentioned in the articles are actually scientifically elaborate & invaluable, but did nothing practically curative in the end, as proven by the related medical practioners, for my chronic eyelid-twitching condition, and that reasonably explains my eventual disappointment in them.

I just want to ask you a realistic question : In terms of a patient seeking treatment for any sicknesses, what would eventually matter the most to them ?
Is it the established scientific reasonings or the underlying curative value of the therapy itself ?

And if a particular therapy is known & proven to work for most people in terms of certain sicknesses, should it be invalidated just for the sake of the mere reason that it has not yet been scientfically proven, and hence is deemed to be scientifically worthless ? And would such a reasoning be fair to the particular patients, especially those who have sought numerous repeated futile treatments from the established medical practices and are still suffering painfully from them ?

[ Edited: 05 February 2008 06:10 PM by NC ]
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Posted: 05 February 2008 06:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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I just want to ask you a realistic question : In terms of a patient seeking treatment for any sicknesses, what would eventually matter the most to them ?
Is it the established scientific reasonings or the underlying curative value of the therapy itself ?

What matters most to the patient is whether or not they get better. Unfortunately, this doesn’t mean the patient knows why they get better. Why do you think bloodletting was practiced for thousands of years when no one today (well., except maybe a few ayurvedic practitioners) believes it is valuable? Because the placebo effect, the natural tendancy of disease to get better in time, the fallacy that what comes before mujst be the cause, and many other common erros in thinking lead us to give credit where it is not due. I care about whether people, and my animal pateints, are actually made well by my therapy or not, not just whether they think they have been. Science tells me when I am really helpingthem and when i’m just folling them or myself with sloppy thinking and placebo.

You had lots of treatments and didn’t get better. Then you had acupuncture and got better. Did the acupuncture make you better? Piles and piles of research evidence and the experience of all the patients it is based on indicates it didn’t. Do I know why you got better then? Nope. But I do know that it isn’t for the reason you believe. I’m happy for you that your life is better, but I’m sad for all those people who listen to your story and seek out a worthless treatment instead of a real one. It’s not your fault, not their fault, and often not even the acupuncturist’s fault. You’re all doing what you believe is best. Your just wrong. But the reality is that people suffer because of it, no matter the good intentions.

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Posted: 05 February 2008 06:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Maybe you are right,  but it did still give considerable reliefs for me to choose acupuncture treatment and give up the idea of getting a surgery in the end, which is labelled as risky but ‘ultimately effective’ by the related neurosurgeon for my chronic eyelid-twitching.  The mere suggestion of surgical treatment actually made me worried tremendously, and I think other patients, especially those who are still in my shoes would have the same response too.

And though I don’t know anything about the outcomes of the research you have mentioned, as to whether it’s true or not, I would still believe that if acupuncture treatment is really totally worthless like what you have claimed to be, it won’t have lasted and existed for centuries & throughout the generations until now.

[ Edited: 05 February 2008 06:25 PM by NC ]
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Posted: 06 February 2008 06:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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When I hurt my back really badly (the pain went from my lower back, into my hip, down my left leg and into my foot - they said it was sciatica), I was unable to walk, at all, for a little more than a year. The pain was so intense, I have never felt anything like it, would never want to feel anything like it again.

I was willing to try anything to stop it, I mean anything. I went to physiotherapy for 6mths, the condition only worsened. I tried acupuncture, the condition only worsened. The physiotherapist said I should try osteopathy, so I went to an osteopath for another 5mths.

Now, when I was at the osteopath I did perceive some relief - some. I began walking 10 maybe 20 feet more than I could in the past and going to the bathroom was less a chore.

I started reading about my condition and it seemed to me that Lipitor was causing the problem. I made an appointment with my doctor and he said it was impossible, I knew for a fact every symptom I had matched Lipitor poisoning, so I tried some more osteopathy, went back to my doctor and brought up lipitor again. Again he shot down the idea.

Despondent and on the brink of suicide, I took myself off lipitor, all at once. Within 4 days there was a large amount of relief. I still couldn’t walk, but I had much, much more mobility and could lift my leg off the bed a good 8 inches without screaming.

At that point I realized the osteopathy was just costing me money, and so was the physiotherapy. I did more research and found out I had the symptoms of CRPS (complex regional pain syndrome) and the lipitor was likely aggravating the condition. I had my doctor run some blood tests to see how much protein was in my blood. I was worried the break up of proteins from muscle loss would kill my kidneys. I tested moderate. At this point I had lost 1” of circumference off my left leg in muscle.  I argued with my doctor to take my off oxycontin (I was taking 120mg x 2 a day with 6 or 8 5mg tabs of oxycodone for breakthrough and still couldn’t walk. I wanted to go to 45mg morphine x2 a day which is equal to er, 20mg of oxy x2 a day) and put me on to morphine (much less addictive) and I fought for gabapentin (should have asked for Lyrica =/ ). He gave me a 2 week supply and within that 2 weeks, I finally established a cap to the pain (previously there was no end to the pain i’d experience). Within a month, I started exercising, and now some 5mths later, I am almost normal again unless i miss some doses and I take the morphine infrequently.

So whatever the case, be it lipitor poisoning (no serious amount of proteins), or a case of CRPS, the treatments are the same (gabapentin which is a neuropathic pain reliever).

I know this is a long post, seems irrelevant, might just be. The point I am trying to make is that a) desperate people will try anything, anything for relief b) desperate people WANT to believe something works, and can convince themselves for some time it is working c) the Placebo effect is very strong, much stronger than previously thought and they are looking into treatments based solely on the placebo effect d) Many things like Osteopathy, Physiotherapy, acupuncture, homeopathy, naturalpathic doctors and so on, are more like parasites feeding off the panic in people and the desire to get well. The average recovery time for a bad back is 6mths, and 6mths with physiotherapy. If you see a naturopathic doctor, you end up with expensive pee and water that is supposed to heal you.

So many people will tell you anything to get at your purse strings. So much of it is plain crap. If there was scientific evidence that these things work, really work with some degree of noticeable benefit above the placebo effect, then I would embrace them, but they don’t. They claim to do too much and the thing is, I KNEW it. Rationally when I walked into the osteopath’s office and saw she could cure just about everything with body movements, I KNEW it was bullshit right then and there.

Like I said, deseperate people, desperate measures.

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Posted: 06 February 2008 04:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Scientifically proven established medical facts of any therapies are always deemed invaluable to most people, especially the medical personnel no matter whatsoever forms they may take. And even in terms of chronic eyelid-twitching, the unfavourable outcomes of the ‘ultimate cure’ of surgical treatment for this sickness are also the scientifically proven medical facts that are 100% certain and definite to both the patients and the medical personnel, and hence invaluable to such later category of people.

But the question is how would the patients seeking treatment for such a sickness as specificied in my articles respond to such unfavourable but definite outcomes of surgical treatment which are also the so-called scientifically proven and invaluable medical facts, but on the other hand are curatively disadvantageous to them ?

Should the Scientific validality of such certain but unfavourable outcomes of the therapy alone justify their acceptance for such a choice of treatment ?

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Posted: 06 February 2008 04:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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You act as if “scientific validity” were some wierd feature of a therapy unconnected with whether or not it works. All “scientific validity” means is that we know something relaible about how well it works and what the side effects are. If something is not tested scientifically, we don’t know anything about it. Oh, you think you know it works because you get better after having it done, but there are lots of clear reasons why this is not true. So yes, the scientifically-established facts about a therapy are the only way to evaluate it. If there are any such facts, then you’re just rolling the dice and taking your chances. That sounds ok to you since you think that an unproven (in fact largely disproven) therapy has helped you. But I can point to just as many people who haven’t been helped, and a few who’ve had their lives ruined by taking such therapies blindly. Scientific knowledge is never complete or perfect, but it’s a damn sight better than the nothing CAM offers.

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Posted: 07 February 2008 12:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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..... Scientific knowledge is never complete or perfect, but it’s a damn sight better than the nothing CAM offers.

Well, since scientific knowledge is never complete or perfect, and hence reasonably pending further research studies, experimentations and detailed explorations for further discoveries, then what makes you or any other persons to be in any warranted position to denounce any alternative therapies, particularly the ones that are totally unfamiliar to you or any of such persons as being ‘worthless’ in any aspects ?


.... but it’s a damn sight better than the nothing CAM offers

In the case of surgical treatment for chronic eyelid-twitching, could the failed outcome of blindness which is almost irreversible inflicted to anyone being operated be reasonably to be deemed as ‘better than nothing’ compared to the so called ‘nothing’ that the other alternative therapy might offer ?

[ Edited: 07 February 2008 12:51 AM by NC ]
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Posted: 07 February 2008 12:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Just because I don’t know everything doesn’t mean I know nothing. Science can’t prove or disprove a therapy without research on it. For some alternative methods that research has been done and the answer is clear. Acupuncture and chiropractic are almost entirely placebo-based when they help with pain, and they do nothing else useful for the body. Ma Huang contains ephedra, which is a caffeine-like stimulant, so it has some real effects but more as a general “pick-me-up” than the specific therapy it claims. These are examples of things science knows and so can speak confidently about.

Does SAME prevent NSAID-induced liver toxicosis? I don’t know. Does green tea provide enough anti-oxidents to meaningfully affect cancer rates? I don’t know. My point is that science can denounce what is worthless when research shows it is worthless (e.g. chiropractic for anything other than idiopathic pain). It can declare something as unlikely to be helpful when its proposed mechanism has been disproven, even if the specific therapy/disease test hasn’t been run (sublixations do not exist and are not detectable by chiropractors, so they cannot be fixed in order to cure anything). And science can say “I don’t know” when it doesn’t (gren tea and cancer, for example). But CAM practitioners almost always claim efficacy based on the unreliable measures we’ve already talked about and are not interested in real research that might prove them wrong. So when I say they offer “nothing” in terms of evidence, I mean it and I can prove it. Whether they offer anything in terms of efficacy for disease depends, as I’ve just explained.

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Posted: 26 February 2008 06:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Please refer to the following weblinks for further information about the acupuncture point & other medications mentioned in the articles above :

Details of
The Acupuncture
Point :


http://www.acuxo.com/meridianPictures.asp?point=LI4&meridian=Large Intestine

 


Risperdal :


http://www.drugs.com/risperdal.html

 


Seroquel :


http://www.drugs.com/seroquel.html

 


Botox :


http://www.drugs.com/cdi/botox.html

 

and,

 

For further information about such non-stop eyelid twitching sickness, which is actually one of the symptoms of Tardive Dyskinesia, please refer to the following : -


http://www.righthealth.com/Health/Tardive_Dyskinesia/-od-definition_adam_1_0006851-s

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Posted: 26 February 2008 11:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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NC, when medications like Risperdal are stop due to symptoms of Tardive Dyskinesia, the symptoms sometimes disappear too.  I find it questionable that the acupuncture actually cured the problem, when such symptoms are not always permenant after ceasing the drug.

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Posted: 27 February 2008 01:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Based on my experience as a part-time social worker in dealing with the in-patients of certain psychiatric wards who were having such a sickness, such an ‘effortless miracle’ would just simply be too good to be true.  Anyway, I really doubt that such automatic stoppage of tardive dyskinesia symptom, especially in the case of chronic eyelid twitching that have lasted for a number of years of which I have observed among these people in the very first place,  can actually be sufficiently sustainable by any quantitative or realistic statistical evidence.

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Posted: 27 February 2008 06:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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NC, I have had experience as a psych tech on a psychiatric ward and as a Community Support Worker for the mentally ill.  Not once did I see a case of Tardive Dyskinesia due to Respirdal.  I am not saying it does not happen.  I know it does, but the people who received shots of Haldol for Schizophrenia had temporary twitches and involuntary movements of their tongues and alike when they first got the shot, but that did not last as the amount of Haldol passed through their system during the month.  In fact, those symptoms significantly reduced, if not even disappeared, in less than a weeks time after the shot.  Again, I am not saying that there are not cases where it lasted and was permenant, I just have not seen it.  Not only that, my older son took Risperdal for his bi-polar disorder and he did not have the problem of Tardive Dyskinesia.  He did have weight gain though.  Unbelievable weight gain, which disappeared after he stop using the medication.  However, I have not seen the drug as an effect treatment for mental illness.  Case in point, I also know another young man who is on the medication for bipolar disorder and he is so talkative that he gets on my nerves, so obviously it is not effective for him, IMO, but he does not have Tardive Dyskinesia, just a lot of weight gain. Once again, this does not mean it does not happen. I am saying though, that I think you are overdramatizing the matter concerning Risperdal, but I will say it’s effectiness to treat psychotic behaviour is questionable.  I definitely have not seen it to be affective with Bipolar disorder and IMHO psychiatrist are making a mistake Rx it for Bipolar.

The fact is, one cannot make a blanket statement about the effects of a medication on individuals.  Some do have problems with a particular medication and have to have a change in meds, but this does not mean all patients have such problems.  Regardless of Risperdal questionable effectiveness, the issue of Tardive Dyskinesia does not happen very often.  It happens more often with Haldol, esp with the shot they receive for it.

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Posted: 20 March 2008 12:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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In the first place, I would consider myself really fortunate enough to eventually get totally cured from such an abnormal eyelid twitching sickness which is a symptom of Tardive Dyskinesia caused by prolonged intake of Risperdal.


I don’t know really much about the levels of compliance for the established medical ethics for the modern western countries of U.S and other European nations, but as for the country that I live in, which is not as modern or developed, such an issue tends to be ignored by the related medical personnel. To be really frank with you, the psychiatrist who prescribed Risperdal to me in the very first place just dispensed this medication to me more as a mere ‘routine’ each time I visited his practice and he has actually never notified to me the underlying side effects of such medication when it is taken for the long-term. And even when observing my abnormal eyelid twitching symptom that appeared to be more and more obvious to him, he also chose to ignore it and just kept asking me to continue taking the medication.


For your further information, Tardive Dyskinesia syndrome tends to be a rare medical term which is rather unfamiliar to most of the medical personnel in my home country. As such, initially when I sought treatment for my abnormal eyelid twitching, most of the normal medical specialists actually failed to associate such a symptom with the Risperdal drug that I had been taking. In the end, I found the right medical experts who have informed knowledge of my conditions in the expensive private medical centres and honestly speaking, the medical details that I included in my articles are actually told by them during my numerous visits to their practices.


Whilst by the time I have totally recovered from such a sickness, I resume my work in my former firm and at the same time I also undertake a committment as a part-time social worker for my religious body with the main duty of providing counselling services to the in-patients of certain psychiatric wards and dwellers of certain special-care nursing homes. Similarly, most of the doctors-in-charge of these facilities, based on my interviews with them, also tend to be very much ignorant about the adverse side effects of such anti-psychotic drugs, and as a result, the persons taking such medications tend to be the ones suffer unknowingly from their potential side effects. For this reason, I thus feel that the welfare of these people has been rather ‘unintentionally neglected’.


As such, by posting these articles over the net, I just hope that I could promote a higher level of self-awareness among the existing persons taking such anti-psychotic drugs about such syndrome of Tardive Dyskinesia and the need to take the necessary precautions against it in view of the fact that the mere “unintentional creation’ and existence of the side effects of such defective anti-psychotic drugs have brought about numerous cases of unwanted and yet ‘overlooked’ disasters through different forms of such negligence and ignorance in the other less- developed countries.


And I hope that you will take into the consideration the welfare of the users of such drugs elsewhere and not just merely take for granted that all the medical personnel worldwide, including the ones in the less-develolped countries are all duly eligible and appropriately qualified enough like the ones in the developed countries like U.S and other European countries to take the necessary care as well as essential steps and measures to ensure the welfare of such category of people just like the way such duty is carried out in these developed nations.  If you were to make the efforts to explore and observe the medical conditions of the in-patients and dwellers of certain pyschiatric wards and special-care nursing homes of the less-developed countries,  you will tend to notice that such a ‘saddening phenomena’ would tend to be obviously widespread and largely and unwittingly ignored in these places, whilst the introduction of such defective drugs in these countries has undoubtedly ‘opened the doors’ to such misfortunes caused by their inherent side effects which eventually and continuously befall such category of persons.

http://www.knowledgeofhealth.com/report.asp?story=Tardive+Dyskinesia+Horror+Stories&catagory=Conventional+Medicine,+Drugs,+Brain

[ Edited: 24 March 2008 08:30 AM by NC ]
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Posted: 24 March 2008 08:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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With all due respect, in regard of the phenomena explained in my prior message, I would like to highlight to you that the young children in my home country would always tend to be the ones who suffer most innocently and painfully from the ordeals of the bodily-damaging side effects of such Tardive Dyskinesia syndrome owing to their much more vulnerable physical conditions and weaker immune system.


Based on what I have observed so far, such children would eventually tend to have a very much lower self-esteem and in most cases, lead an underprivileged life getting alienated by their peers due to their ‘funny looks’. In other words, their lives are basically ruined permanently by the time they get such a sickness.


while their parents, especially the mothers would always tend to immerse themselves in deep anxieties and grave sorrows worrying all the time about the ‘undiagnosed conditions’ of their children as well as their unpromising future whilst at the same time simply do not even have a clue of what exactly is going on.


Therefore, I would like to make an appeal and imploration to the related parties to have the necessary mercy and sympathy on humanitarian ground for the sorry plight of these people in the hope of putting an end to such tragedies and misfortunes.

[ Edited: 03 April 2008 12:44 AM by NC ]
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Posted: 03 April 2008 12:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Human Reactions Towards Tardive Dyskinesia Syndrome - Children Vs Adult

Kindly take note that Tardive Dyskinesia syndrome may affect the movements of other parts of human body too. In this case, I really sympathize those small kids and other young children of my home country who tend to suffer from all other symptoms of Tardive Dyskinesia syndrome on other parts of their bodies apart from the facial muscles.


For your information, based on my observations so far, the symptoms of Tardive Dyskinesia would mostly manifest almost immediately among such young children after their intake of 1 to 2 weeks’ dosage of the related medications that carry the inherent side effects of Tardive Dyskinesia. In this regard, the examples of such Tardive Dyskinesia-related medications may include metoclopramide (Reglan), prochlorperazine (Compazine) - being medications for gastrointestinal problems, promethazine (Phenergan) - being medications for cough and so on that are often prescribed to the children and such medications would tend to cause the disastrous side effects of muscle deformity that affect the rest of their lives.


Given their much more delicate and tiny physique as well as weaker immune system, they are thus far more medically susceptible to the bodily-damaging side effects of such Tardive Dyskinesia-related medications compared to the adults who naturally and reasonably have a far higher level of bodily tolerance and resistance for the side effects of such medications, and that is the reason why the latter could take such medications for a much longer period of time whilst at the same time running a lower risk of suffering from their side effects.


Whilst in terms of treatment for such Tardive Dyskinesia symptoms among the young children, given that they are naturally disadvantaged by their tiny and yet fragile infected bodily parts, these category of persons, even when they are fully accessible to the whatever necessary therapeutical devices and apparatus as well as other related corrective antidotal pharmaceutical drugs, these pitiful fellows quite often would still invariably and sometimes almost undoubtedly have very much slimmer chances of recovery from their apparent physcial defects and disabilities caused by this Tardive Dyskinesia Syndrome compared to the adults who would tend to have a much higher prospect of recovery from the similar sickness due to their fully-grown and much firmer physical conditions.


As such, from my point of view, it would be wiser and more rational for any related parties, especially the parents to take the additional care and precautionary measures to pay the necessary attentions to and cross-examine the medications meant to be taken by their children for the treatment of any of their sicknesses with other more reliable sources in case of any inherent dire side effects that may be potentially present in these medications so that such undesired saddening disasters and tragedies can be effectively avoided in the very first place.

 

Details About Tardive Dyskinesia :


http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/921990098.html

 

Further Details About The Medications Specified Above :


Metoclopramide :

http://www.drugs.com/metoclopramide.html


Reglan :

http://www.drugs.com/reglan.html


Prochlorperazine :

http://www.drugs.com/mtm/prochlorperazine.html


Compazine :

http://www.drugs.com/mtm/compazine.html


Promethazine :

http://www.drugs.com/promethazine.html


Phenergan :

http://www.drugs.com/phenergan.html

[ Edited: 13 June 2008 09:33 AM by NC ]
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