I wholeheartedly agree with what you said about integration, Mriana.

If I were to move to another country permanently, I would assimilate to their law. Why muslims think they don’t have to is beyond me.

if they really want islamic law, then stay in an islamic country.

Go somewhere else, then integrate, dammit!

Did I mention religion and dogma make me crazy? 

Mriana - 07 February 2008 12:22 PM

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2008/02/anglican-leader.html

He’s lost his mind!

I thought this was an Internet hoax at first...I thought he had enough trouble maintaining a consensus in the Anglican church already…

Oh I suspect they’ll be leaving by the thousands.

Seriously, though it’s obviously not a hoax.  The man’s demented- as in dementia.

Religious tolerance gone wrong, very very wrong.

Sam Harris is right, 100%. Liberal tolerance of “moderate” religion gives the fundamentalists a place to hide.

Yes, Atheist Pariah, this is what happens when you insist on “making nice-nice” with everyone.  You end up being an appeaser- just as Sam Harris says.

Whites to be minority in US by 2050: study

Feb-11-08

“WASHINGTON (AFP) - Immigration will drive the population of the United States sharply upward between now and 2050, and will push whites into a minority, projections by the Pew Research Center showed Monday.

“If current trends continue, the population of the United States will rise to 438 million in 2050, from 296 million in 2005,” an increase of nearly 50 percent, the study by the Washington-based think-tank said.

More than 80 percent of the increase will be due to immigrants arriving in the country and their US-born children, who will make up nearly one in five Americans by 2050 compared with one in eight in 2005, it said.

Whites, who currently make up around two-thirds of the US population, will become a minority (47 percent) by 2050, the report said.

The Hispanic population, currently the largest minority group, will triple in size and double in percentage terms from 14 percent in 2005 to 29 percent in 2050, the report said.

The Asian population will roughly double in percentage terms, from five percent to nine percent, while the black population will remain static at around 13 percent.

The projections are based on trends over the past 50 years, during which legal and illegal immigration have played an increasing role in US population growth, the report said.

From 1960 to 2005, new immigrants and their US-born descendants accounted for 51 percent of population increase, and for 58 percent from 1980 to 2005, the report said.

But, the report warned, “possible future changes in immigration policy” could impact the projections.

Illegal immigration has become a top issue in the race for the US presidency, especially among Republican candidates, most of whom favor of a crackdown.”

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080211/ts_alt_afp/uspopulationimmigrationethnic

-- yahoo news

I realize this is nit picking, but many Latinos are also Caucasian.  In addition, they tend to classify everyone who has only enough non-Caucasian genes to give them a bit more skin pigmentation as non-white.  Most of the people we classify as African-American have a good part of their ancestry as Caucasian.  While immigration will be a large part of the shift, I’ll guess that the percent of people who are “pure” anything involving “race” will fade even more quickly. 

Years ago I worked with a chemist who explained that his only problem was being born a thousand years too soon.  His father was Chinese (Asian) and his mother was half German (Caucasian) and half South African (Negro).  As he pointed out, that was roughly the ratio of the races in the world.  I think his only mistake was in assuming it would take a thousand years.  I think racial blending is happening much more quickly, and it’s a great way of eliminateing racial discrimination.

Occam

Freethinkaluva - 11 February 2008 12:45 PM

Whites to be minority in US by 2050: study

I probably missed something in this discussion, but is this supposed to be some sort of problem?

If not, what’s the point of posting it?

Geez, I hate it, Doug, when I write what I think is a thoughtful reponse then you cut through all my drivel and get to the heart of the matter in a few words. 

You’re quite right.

(Hoist by my own succintness petard.)

Occam

Maybe I’m being obtuse, but how will whites be a minority at 47%, when no other racial group will be able to exceed those numbers on their own?

Won’t whites still be the majority, if compared singly with each other race in turn?

47% white
29% Hispanic
13% African American
9 % Asian

Still looks like whites won’t be a minority to me.

Atheist_Pariah - 11 February 2008 03:27 PM

Maybe I’m being obtuse, but how will whites be a minority at 47%, when no other racial group will be able to exceed those numbers on their own?

Well, strictly speaking they will be a minority since they will be less than 50% of the population. However they will be the largest minority.

Getting back to my question, though, who cares? What does it matter if less than 50% of the US population has relatively light-colored skin?

Atheist_Pariah - 08 February 2008 06:49 AM

Liberal tolerance of “moderate” religion gives the fundamentalists a place to hide.

And conservative intolerance of “moderate” religion gives the fundamentalists a valid argument for recruitment.

They don’t need a valid argument for recruitment.

The only obvious solution is to dispose of religion all together, though how that would be accomplished is beyond me.

“Good” and “bad” are subjective; no two people are going to agree on whether a religion is “good” or not, so how are we to decide which are officially OK, and which are not?

*sigh* I know I’m going to regret this since I’ll probably get my head bitten off, but all this argument against “tolerance” with respect to religion strikes me as just as intolerant, self-righteous and dogmatic as religion itself. I know what you guys mean, and there’s a lot about religion that is stupid, harmful, etc. But it’s a human institution prone to both the virtues and vices of humans, as are all social organizations. I’d be happy enough if it went away, but I also think we’d replace it with something else just as imperfect. I don’t think acknowledging that religion is meaningful and even comforting to a lot of people and that it need not be crazy or xenophbic, even if it is mistaken about the nature of reality, is tantamount to surrender or even aiding the enemy. I think it’s more productive to focus on what is healthy, reasonable behavior than on the very idea of religion. If people are kind, tolerant, and basically sensible, it doesn’t bother me if they shave or don’t shave, wear funny hats, eat with forks or chopsticks, or go to church once a week. Those are not the sorts of things on the top of our list of worries.

Apart from that, I agree wholeheartedly that one has to conform to the laws, and to some extent the public cultural practices, of the country one emigrates to, and that I don’t see the crisis in the changing demographics of the US.

Well, said Brennen.  I think we share the same camp, but by the same token, I don’t want Muslims coming over here and imposing their religion on anyone either- same with Xians too.