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“The Truth About Islam” blog
Posted: 04 May 2008 11:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 136 ]
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rationaljeff - 02 May 2008 01:00 AM

I learned everything I need to know about Islam from reading every single book by Ibn Warriq.

What I find to be very unfortunate is that a serious discussion on the Internets is not possible on the most influential blogs like DailyKos and HuffingPost. They refuse to discuss in any serious way the barbaric and absolutely destructful ideology of Islam. 

And the reason I think that is important is because those websites represent the main stream “progressive” audience that has flocked to these blogs because they feel the MSM is too conservative, biased and pander to the gutter culture of society. And then these people who claim to be truly open minded, and progressive will call you a bigot and ban you from their websites because you challenge the intentions of Islam, no matter how intelligently and diligently you lay out your argument.

So when the “cool kids” of the Internts say fuck off, you are a bigot Islam is great, I can’t but hang my head and think we are just screwed.

The Humanist movement here in America ain’t got any talking heads on the 3 main networks, and we ain’t got any New York Times Op-Ed weekly contributers, and we certainly don’t have any REAL lobbying on Capitol Hill.

So to be honest, all of this talking here on this obscure forum will accomplish nothing in the grand scheme, and our children will grow up in the same ignorant selfish world as we did.

Unless…


You’re right, it’s completely taboo and that is a very disgusting thing. 

I was actually having a discussion about religion the other day with some friends and the talk turned to Islam.  They are both atheist-leaning agnostics but neither seemed comfortable with the way I was talking about Islam.  My point was neither new or particularly stunning, I was just saying that any religion that mutilates genitalia and suppresses women is a religion that should be actively fought, not tolerated.


BTW: I’m a new poster, been reading the forum for a few weeks and really enjoying the discussions.

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Posted: 04 May 2008 04:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 137 ]
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I was born and have been brought up muslim, as such I’ve dealt with lots of kaka but I have not been circumcised, I am familiar with what goes on in many other muslim countries since I have relatives there, from what I gather not a single one of them practice female circumcision. I am not bragging but my family tree goes all the way back to where islam started, female circumcision is an african thing not muslim, the countries that practice it are black and that should sent out a hint that it is a cultural thing despite the fact that these countries might also be partially muslim. I am not defending these worms. I just think if one works excusively with what actually is to make their case, they also at the same time re-enforce their credibility but when they make up junk that is not there, they join the very ones that they are criticizing in reputation among other things.

[ Edited: 04 May 2008 04:49 PM by Daisy ]
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Posted: 10 May 2008 08:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 138 ]
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rationaljeff, BasilLee, Daisy and others are right - folks must be able to discuss Islam critically without being molested for it. There are plenty of great Muslims out there who are interested in assimilating into western culture but those aren’t the ones I’m worried about. For those who are paying attention, globalization is trying to include Islam into banking and everything.

There are several very scary things about Islam that must be discussed openly.

Daisy, help me organize an accurate list of serious issues with Islam that the west must be aware of.

1. They do not separate church from state - it is one & the same.

2. A Muslim cannot leave Islam.

3. The goal for more Muslims than the west cares to admit wants Europe and America to become an Islamic State.

4. Many Muslims want to implement sharia law - which makes infidels and kafirs 2nd class citizens.

5. When Islam/Muslims don’t get their way, they resort to violence and terrorism.

6. There can be no other religion but Islam. There is no freedom of or from religion.

7. Islam doesn’t allow for much entertainment at all - no alcohol, music,

8 Honor killings are okay

9 Pre-arranged marriage

10 Minaret loud speakers to sound off prayers 5 times a day.

“Kafir Dreams” article
http://frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=76B12F33-3165-47D1-80ED-C3F1ACD07D8A

;

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Posted: 10 May 2008 08:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 139 ]
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Don’t forget, Freethinka, dehumanizing of women, as well as, and esp. those who do not ascribe to the Muslim religion.

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“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 10 May 2008 12:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 140 ]
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Freethinkaluva - 10 May 2008 08:00 AM


“Kafir Dreams” article
http://frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=76B12F33-3165-47D1-80ED-C3F1ACD07D8A


This guy is very enlightening in many ways yet just as narrow minded as muslims are in others, the golden rule is an innate human thing and did not emanate from a “kafir”. He makes everything sound as if every single muslim that’s out there is illegible to be hanged because if they are not they will all the “kafirs”, this is very jewish and I mean it in a negative sense. One can read the torah and see how much of what he says about the muslims took root 100’s of years b4 muslims showed up in a different region. They did wage many wars, that is true. but in response the oppressions they were submitted to by the idols worshipers that swarmed the area at that time. And those idol worshippers were NOT tolerant and sMART as he makes them out to be. This on one hand, they also proceeded to kill anybody that refused to submit to islam, plain and simple.
His article is I think still flaring. I can see him discuss islam in this manner on one hand and go behind everybody’s back on the other hand and do business with the same people he is criticizing here. Many do, they don’t mind getting the muslim bucks but pretend to not like who generated them, that’ s hypocritical & dishonest. The word kafir though does indeed have the worst cannotations one can think of. Music in the muslim world is supposed to be satan’s koran unless its lyrical content was of a muslim nature LOL  LOL . Dualism is islam’s own main highlight, there is no moderation in islam, everything is in black and white. Islam’s main pillers are five points, if one diobeys any of those 5 points (no matter how good they are at the other 4) they become kafir.

[ Edited: 10 May 2008 01:18 PM by Daisy ]
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Posted: 11 May 2008 07:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 141 ]
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Is it just me or is there a post missing?

D “there is no moderation in islam, everything is in black and white. Islam’s main pillers are five points, if one diobeys any of those 5 points (no matter how good they are at the other 4) they become kafir.”

- What are those 5 points, for clarity?

Mriana is right, I knew there were more -

11. Dehumanization and mistreatment of women (mistreatment of animals too)

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Posted: 11 May 2008 08:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 142 ]
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Yes, and mistreatment of animals too.  It is so bad concerning dogs, the in N.Y. people who are blind filed a lawsuit against Muslim cab drivers.  The cab drivers would not even allow a working dog in their cabs because it would defile their cab, so much so they would have to take time out to do some ritual to purify it.  Such things are a violation of the ADA (American Disabilities Act), as well as a violation of the First Amendment.  How so?  Well the ADA one should be obvious, but the First Amendment, the Muslims are imposing their superstitious beliefs about dogs on people with disabilities.  Unless they are Muslims (or similar) few people with disabilities believe that dogs are unclean on religious grounds and find them extremely helpful in their daily lives.  Such dogs, as most of us know here, are not the common mut, highly trained, and valuable.  There are no grounds to impose any religious views on people with aide dogs and to do so, limits many people with disabilies of their right to the least restrictive environment.  Muslims are going to have to come up with something far better than religion if they don’t want an aide dog in their cab and more than likely, they can’t, because such dogs are not prone to be destructive, aggressive without just cause, or alike. The only time such dogs would become aggressive, is if another human became physically aggressive to the person they assist- and that is very rare. I haven’t heard of too many people attempting to harm a blind person (or any disabled person) with an assistive dog. So they can’t even use that as an excuse.  The dogs are chosen to be trained as aide dogs based on many features- one of them being their disposition, they can’t be aggressive or highly excitable, for one thing, but they are trained to be protective though. So, these Muslim cab drivers are ignorant twits who probably drool more on themselves then he dogs do in their car and deserved to be sued by people with disabilities, groups who help uphold the ADA, and alike.

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Posted: 11 May 2008 01:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 143 ]
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Freethinkaluva - 11 May 2008 07:52 AM

Is it just me or is there a post missing?

you mean my post? I didn’t have time to talk about the 10 things you pointed out so I thought I’d make a quick comment about the article. All of them are mostly true though

D “there is no moderation in islam, everything is in black and white. Islam’s main pillers are five points, if one diobeys any of those 5 points (no matter how good they are at the other 4) they become kafir.”

- What are those 5 points, for clarity?

I haven’t thought about this in a while but I’ll try to remember:

1/witness that allah is the only allah there is LOL (allah is not a different god but simply the translation of “god” in arabic language) to those who claim he is, then I’d ask why is the koran bothering to plagiarise most of the OT & NT if it is different. One thing islam disgree with the others on is that jesus is not the son of god though it acknowledges his biological dad is not identified.
2/do ramadan, which during one month each muslim year (the muslim year is I think 11 or 13 days shorter than the christian year so that causes that month to rotate upward by that many days on yearly basis), consists of not eating, drinking or hinting any sort of sexual interacting on any level from sun rise to sunset.
3/pray 5 times a day.
4/ tithing and this is supposed to take place right after the ending of ramadan, I think the norme is for each muslim to give a quarter of his yearly earning away (I might be wrong about the %  age).

This is one of the aspects where I disgree with Warner, my grand father was a scholar (State officials came to counsel with him on regular basis), he inherited pretty much the whole damn town where he lived, everybody was welcome to come and eat on fridays, some stayed over for several days. Not all of them were muslims, one of his wife’s best friends was jewish (btw, jewish were I grew up were untouchable, had their businesses and no one bothered them, this is my personal reference) she and my grand mother used to nurse each other’s babies whenever that was called, for meaning if for example one of them was out on groceries shopping the other would assume the position of a mother for her friend’s baby etc. Many european tourists used to come by and eat, each time that happened, a cheep was killed, or rooster or whatever was needed depending on how many needed to be fed, the whole nineyard, none of them were muslims. I know to you this a stupid insignificant anecdote, to me it is factual.
It irritates the hell out of me when folks deliberately sweep the good right under and magnify the bad just for the sake of feeding that seemingly sherished hatred between muslims and jews, I wouldn’t call these intelectuals who are working to understand but just a different type of mercenaries who are out to serve their own purposes. I bet there are muslims that are who he says they are not doubt in my mind, but that is not fair to the conservative muslims who are not interested in waging un-needed wars to be charged with crimes others are committing.

5/-do the pegrimage in saudi arabia if one can afford it, meaning visit the prophet’s tomb.

thank you for asking, I will come back and finish later. I didn’t read Mriana’s post yet but I spotted the thing about animals, it is more than true, most muslims are total savages toward animals.

[ Edited: 11 May 2008 02:27 PM by Daisy ]
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Posted: 12 May 2008 07:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 144 ]
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Daisy - 11 May 2008 01:59 PM

I haven’t thought about this in a while but I’ll try to remember:

1/witness that allah is the only allah there is LOL (allah is not a different god but simply the translation of “god” in arabic language) to those who claim he is, then I’d ask why is the koran bothering to plagiarise most of the OT & NT if it is different. One thing islam disgree with the others on is that jesus is not the son of god though it acknowledges his biological dad is not identified.

Not only plagerize it, but also change it.  Whoever heard of a woman in labour shaking a tree demanding it to give her food?  Besides, didn’t Jesus curse the fig tree?  Oh wait, the type of tree was changed too.  And what is up with that Adam?  It is a riot!  Obviously rewritten and purely fiction. Seems to me, Mohammad wrote himself into the Bible just because… and then was on some sort of wild drug or something, besides being hateful, prejudice, discriminating, and demeaning.

Yes, needless to say, I didn’t not consider it such a great read and don’t care much for it, but I’ll refrain from criticizing the Quran further.

2/do ramadan, which during one month each muslim year (the muslim year is I think 11 or 13 days shorter than the christian year so that causes that month to rotate upward by that many days on yearly basis), consists of not eating, drinking or hinting any sort of sexual interacting on any level from sun rise to sunset.
3/pray 5 times a day.

Gee, that really takes the fun out of life.  Seriously though, didn’t they have a lunar calendar, instead of a solar calendar, before the Middle East became mostly Islamic?  If so, this may explain their liturgical calendar.

5/-do the pegrimage in saudi arabia if one can afford it, meaning visit the prophet’s tomb.

I they can’t afford it, how can they even visit the prophet’s tomb?  I mean, this world is getting pretty big and not all Muslims live in the Middle East anymore. Such a move could really tap some people’s resources.  This is not a criticism, but an observation.

thank you for asking, I will come back and finish later. I didn’t read Mriana’s post yet but I spotted the thing about animals, it is more than true, most muslims are total savages toward animals.

Yes, that is something that sickened and repulsed me, esp when the prof, that I studied some of Islam under in the world religion class I am about to finish, said that Islamic have a mass ritual slaughter of animals.  He only briefly mentioned it and did not allow any discussion or questioning of such offenses to animals.  While I did not and would not phrase my questions in that manner, I thought the shutting down of my inquiries to what they were teaching about Islam was wrong.  However, it seemed to me that I, a non-traditional student, was the only one bold enough to question any of it.

However, when I spotted some inaccuracies in what he said concerning Muslim women, I was told to shut up by both him and the dean.  I pointed out women like Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Dr. Nawal El Saadawi, who are not happy with the current state of women in Islam when they attempted to paint as if all women accept it and believed it was liberating.  That simply is not true, but I was not allowed to say anything or even mention these various women who want reform.  The university only wanted to point out women who had no issues with the oppressive rules for women and paint it as all good and all accepting.  I even said, “Wait a minute.  You will point out the those that attempted reform in the Christian religion, but you won’t even discuss those who are attempting reform currently?  That makes no sense.”  They said, “If you try to fight it, you will not win.”  It was insane!  What is wrong with telling the various sides of the issue?  Why only one side?  Why insist all Muslim women accept this sort of treatment of women?  Their other excuse was that people only saw the bad side of Islam and they wanted to teach only the good side to students.  IMHO, this wrong.  Both should be taught and not have Islam made to look as though it is superior to other religion, because it is not.

I even quoted a couple verses of the Quran concerning women, as well as those who are not Islamic, and was immediately quieted.  See, they never required or recommended any of the students to get a copy of the Quran.  They TOLD the students what they wanted them to know, instead of providing all that was needed to learn about Islam.  I was told it was not my place to tell them how it should be taught and to do so would only cause me problems (which of course I would not win).  They did, IMO, Islam and the students of the class, a great injustice and a grave disservice by not requiring or recommending all the needed materials for the class.  To me, it seemed the department was trying to hide something about Islam and I was not allowed to question any of it.  Why could we question the other religions, but not Islam?  It was insane.

Not only that, just because I have read the Quran, I was told I did not understand it and needed an Iman to explain it to me.  WHAT?  Like I can’t read and comprehend?!  That class which I am finishing in a few days, was/is a bunch of BS IMO and I made it quite clear on the evaluation students have to fill out at the end of the semester.  At the very least, the Quran should have been recommended reading and students allowed to question what was being said, just as they are allowed to question the rest of the course dealing with other religions.  The course, was a grave injustice to students, esp concerning the study of Islam.

Well, enough of my rant.  I must go and finish this semester out, not with just this class, but two others, no matter how disgusted and disappointed I am with the religious dept concerning the study of Islam.

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Posted: 12 May 2008 12:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 145 ]
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Mriana - 11 May 2008 08:43 AM

Yes, and mistreatment of animals too.  It is so bad concerning dogs, the in N.Y. people who are blind filed a lawsuit against Muslim cab drivers.  The cab drivers would not even allow a working dog in their cabs because it would defile their cab, so much so they would have to take time out to do some ritual to purify it.  Such things are a violation of the ADA (American Disabilities Act), as well as a violation of the First Amendment.  How so?  Well the ADA one should be obvious, but the First Amendment, the Muslims are imposing their superstitious beliefs about dogs on people with disabilities.  Unless they are Muslims (or similar) few people with disabilities believe that dogs are unclean on religious grounds and find them extremely helpful in their daily lives.  Such dogs, as most of us know here, are not the common mut, highly trained, and valuable.  There are no grounds to impose any religious views on people with aide dogs and to do so, limits many people with disabilies of their right to the least restrictive environment.  Muslims are going to have to come up with something far better than religion if they don’t want an aide dog in their cab and more than likely, they can’t, because such dogs are not prone to be destructive, aggressive without just cause, or alike. The only time such dogs would become aggressive, is if another human became physically aggressive to the person they assist- and that is very rare. I haven’t heard of too many people attempting to harm a blind person (or any disabled person) with an assistive dog. So they can’t even use that as an excuse.  The dogs are chosen to be trained as aide dogs based on many features- one of them being their disposition, they can’t be aggressive or highly excitable, for one thing, but they are trained to be protective though. So, these Muslim cab drivers are ignorant twits who probably drool more on themselves then he dogs do in their car and deserved to be sued by people with disabilities, groups who help uphold the ADA, and alike.

See? this is what pisses me off, they come here by choice, knowing that this country is not saudi c&*^#@ yet they expect to continue practicing their garbage as if they were still in the heart of Jeddah, go ahead and try to reciprocate in Jeddah or anywhere else in the muslim dump and watch the resistence you’d encounter. I personally think dogs in general are smarter, cleaner and more honest than those dirt bags and those need to be put out of business if they are not happy with the way business is conducted in the US. They are combatting the very system that allowed them to come here and peacefully make a living. What an outrage.

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Posted: 12 May 2008 12:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 146 ]
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Daisy - 12 May 2008 12:43 PM

... saudi c&*^#@ ... garbage… muslim dump ... dogs ... dirt bags…

Daisy, I must say that this sort of rhetoric is inappropriate. One can disagree with particular points of view without stooping to name-calling and verbal abuse. To dehumanize simply plays the wrong game here. They are people too, even if misguided.

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Posted: 12 May 2008 12:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 147 ]
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Mriana - 12 May 2008 07:49 AM

  Not only plagerize it, but also change it.  Whoever heard of a woman in labour shaking a tree demanding it to give her food?  Besides, didn’t Jesus curse the fig tree?  Oh wait, the type of tree was changed too.  And what is up with that Adam?  It is a riot!  Obviously rewritten and purely fiction. Seems to me, Mohammad wrote himself into the Bible just because… and then was on some sort of wild drug or something, besides being hateful, prejudice, discriminating, and demeaning.

mohamad can’t read or write, he orally passed on that junk to others who put it in written form.

Yes, needless to say, I didn’t not consider it such a great read and don’t care much for it, but I’ll refrain from criticizing the Quran further.

At least the NIV, the first time I grabbed it, I could understand what is being said and back then my english was close to non-existant. One cannot say the same for koran that is uncomprehensible even for a fluent person, the language in whichi it is written is so old and dead. And this is just the mold, that tells one a little something about the content.

Gee, that really takes the fun out of life.  Seriously though, didn’t they have a lunar calendar, instead of a solar calendar, before the Middle East became mostly Islamic?  If so, this may explain their liturgical calendar.

LOL I personally never got that part and don’t care to at this point, yeah I guess they do have lunar calendar.

I they can’t afford it, how can they even visit the prophet’s tomb?  I mean, this world is getting pretty big and not all Muslims live in the Middle East anymore. Such a move could really tap some people’s resources.  This is not a criticism, but an observation.

It says they have to only if they can afford it but many go into deep debt in the process just so they can say they’ve done it. The same funds can be used to cover something that really will make a difference in their lives.

Yes, that is something that sickened and repulsed me, esp when the prof, that I studied some of Islam under in the world religion class I am about to finish, said that Islamic have a mass ritual slaughter of animals.  He only briefly mentioned it and did not allow any discussion or questioning of such offenses to animals.  While I did not and would not phrase my questions in that manner, I thought the shutting down of my inquiries to what they were teaching about Islam was wrong.  However, it seemed to me that I, a non-traditional student, was the only one bold enough to question any of it.

the only mass slaughter of animals I can think of is the time they mark the Abraham thing where he was ordered to kill his son and turned around and thought maybe killing a cheep is better (he probably thought he can’t abuse or work to death a dead son). At that time of the year everybody kills a cheep. And looked at from outside it is a mass animals slaugher.

[ Edited: 12 May 2008 01:09 PM by Daisy ]
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Posted: 12 May 2008 01:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 148 ]
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dougsmith - 12 May 2008 12:56 PM
Daisy - 12 May 2008 12:43 PM

... saudi c&*^#@ ... garbage… muslim dump ... dogs ... dirt bags…

Daisy, I must say that this sort of rhetoric is inappropriate. One can disagree with particular points of view without stooping to name-calling and verbal abuse. To dehumanize simply plays the wrong game here. They are people too, even if misguided.


I apolozise Doug, thank you for your pointer, I’lll work to verbally keep my linguistic descriptions at the level expected.

in regard to dogs though, ask anyone, the muslim religion believes they are inclean and if one feeds them inside their house, they would have committed a sin, a muslim is ordered to feed a dog outside of their home but never inside if they must have one. I personally believe that is heartless, dogs do hurt, get sad and rejoice etc. and I think keeping a poor beautiful dog outside is nazi-like.

[ Edited: 12 May 2008 01:19 PM by Daisy ]
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Posted: 12 May 2008 01:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 149 ]
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Mriana - 12 May 2008 07:49 AM

However, when I spotted some inaccuracies in what he said concerning Muslim women, I was told to shut up by both him and the dean.  I pointed out women like Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Dr. Nawal El Saadawi, who are not happy with the current state of women in Islam when they attempted to paint as if all women accept it and believed it was liberating.

You should have insisted: “liberating from what??? their humanity, freedom and truth?
they know if islam liberate a woman it is only from life itself nothing more. If some women out there claim it is liberating it is only because they have never known any other way, in other words, they are blind and deaf to the other 99%  options that are available to them but they are too whatever to dare reaching out for.

  That simply is not true, but I was not allowed to say anything or even mention these various women who want reform.  The university only wanted to point out women who had no issues with the oppressive rules for women and paint it as all good and all accepting.  I even said, “Wait a minute.  You will point out the those that attempted reform in the Christian religion, but you won’t even discuss those who are attempting reform currently?  That makes no sense.”  They said, “If you try to fight it, you will not win.”  It was insane!  What is wrong with telling the various sides of the issue?  Why only one side?  Why insist all Muslim women accept this sort of treatment of women?  Their other excuse was that people only saw the bad side of Islam and they wanted to teach only the good side to students.  IMHO, this wrong.  Both should be taught and not have Islam made to look as though it is superior to other religion, because it is not.

the kind of goony intimidating you have encountered from these creatures is exactly what drives me up the wall as to speak of them the way Doug said not to.

I even quoted a couple verses of the Quran concerning women, as well as those who are not Islamic, and was immediately quieted.  See, they never required or recommended any of the students to get a copy of the Quran.  They TOLD the students what they wanted them to know, instead of providing all that was needed to learn about Islam.  I was told it was not my place to tell them how it should be taught and to do so would only cause me problems (which of course I would not win).  They did, IMO, Islam and the students of the class, a great injustice and a grave disservice by not requiring or recommending all the needed materials for the class.  To me, it seemed the department was trying to hide something about Islam and I was not allowed to question any of it.  Why could we question the other religions, but not Islam?  It was insane.

Not only that, just because I have read the Quran, I was told I did not understand it and needed an Iman to explain it to me.  WHAT?  Like I can’t read and comprehend?!  That class which I am finishing in a few days, was/is a bunch of BS IMO and I made it quite clear on the evaluation students have to fill out at the end of the semester.  At the very least, the Quran should have been recommended reading and students allowed to question what was being said, just as they are allowed to question the rest of the course dealing with other religions.  The course, was a grave injustice to students, esp concerning the study of Islam.

Well, enough of my rant.  I must go and finish this semester out, not with just this class, but two others, no matter how disgusted and disappointed I am with the religious dept concerning the study of Islam.

read the chapter of “nissa’aa”=women, in there, women are spoken about not too, if those ....think being flugged for this or that is liberating then I guess they deserve it. I understand your frustration. You’ve gone that far, I wouldn’t even consider taking a course about islam. Sorry Doug but when I read about experiences such as Mriana’s, I suddenly hail the holy land’s leaders because clearly if one tries to reason with a muslim anything in a civil manner, look what they get, apparently the only language that seem work with them is that of dynamite.

[ Edited: 12 May 2008 01:47 PM by Daisy ]
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Posted: 12 May 2008 03:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 150 ]
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Daisy - 12 May 2008 01:34 PM

You should have insisted: “liberating from what??? their humanity, freedom and truth?
they know if islam liberate a woman it is only from life itself nothing more. If some women out there claim it is liberating it is only because they have never known any other way, in other words, they are blind and deaf to the other 99%  options that are available to them but they are too whatever to dare reaching out for.

Oh I did try and push it, that’s why they started threatening me with, “If you persue this, you will not win” crap.

the kind of goony intimidating you have encountered from these creatures is exactly what drives me up the wall as to speak of them the way Doug said not to.

I fully understand. Thing is, I’m not sure if lowering ourselves to their level will help any.

read the chapter of “nissa’aa”=women, in there, women are spoken about not too, if those ....think being flugged for this or that is liberating then I guess they deserve it. I understand your frustration. You’ve gone that far, I wouldn’t even consider taking a course about islam. Sorry Doug but when I read about experiences such as Mriana’s, I suddenly hail the holy land’s leaders because clearly if one tries to reason with a muslim anything in a civil manner, look what they get, apparently the only language that seem work with them is that of dynamite.

Oh yes, I’ve read it and tried to quote some of it. I wasn’t even allowed to finish the quote, even though I was accurate with what I began with.  The prof shut me down in class by interrupting me.  rolleyes  I emailed him sometime after class that same day and asked why when I was accurate and even went to the source, copying it word for about women.  Then I added others.  He said it was because they wanted to show the good of Islam and not the bad- including the bit about the burkha and hijab, which he said was not mentioned or supported in the Quran (in class he said this last and where my headaches with speaking up started).  Um… Actually…

The Light

24:31 And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands’ fathers, or their sons or their husbands’ sons, or their brothers or their brothers’ sons or sisters’ sons, or their women, or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigour, or children who know naught of women’s nakedness. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And turn unto Allah together, O believers, in order that ye may succeed.

While it does not say anything directly about the hajab and burka, I figure that is the start of such rules and 23 The Believers starts out with a list concerning the success of believers including those who “guard their modesty”.  However, Chapter 4 really angers me.  30:33 says women, esp wives of Mohammad will be doubly punished for lewdness.  And here’s the kicker:

33:59 O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.

Now, even though it is said that it troubled Mohammad’s brother that their women went out in the dead of night to do their business and the potential of their wives being harmed during their travels- thus they completely covered their women from head to toe in all black- it was not suppose to be forever.  At least that is what I heard while listening to some podcast with some Islamic religious guru.  However, it stuck, probably to control women, esp those who have no self-esteem and easily controlled.  I’m still looking for where Mohammad’s bro was excitable by the women who went out to do their business at night.  Be that as it may, I am as certain as I can be, that the idea for women wearing hijabs and burkhas, comes from at least those verses, if not even more.

Of course that is not mentioning all the verses that say women are worth 1/2 a man, scourging women who will not obey, and if her husband divorces her, Allah will give him wives better than her.  rolleyes  I think it is pure ignorance to say that there is no support for the burkha and hijab in the Quran. 

As I said, the prof, dean, and the religious dept were/are wrong not to at least recommend getting a copy of the Quran and telling the students what it says or rather what they want them to believe it says.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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