It’s interesting you should mention raising meat rabbits. We did the same thing. Each member of the family had a role in raising and butchering the animals. It wasn’t pleasant, but it was an important experience. (Rabbits were chosen over chickens because they weren’t noisy and though our neighbors were much like us and would not have complained, my folks thought the noise impolite toward our neighbors.) Our father also hunted wild rabbit, squirrel and deer. He always did the field dressing, but we helped butcher when he brought it home. We also kept a kitchen garden with the usual produce such as beans, corn, squash, cukes, tomatoes, etc. The garden isn’t the deathless oasis idealize it to be when one considers the battle against garden pests.
Knowing where your food comes from and what it takes to make it happen is liberating. We didn’t subsist entirely on our own. We’d take a trip to the grocery store for some things just like the family next door. But we ate the way we did because it was economical for our family and because my folks believed it was important to be resourceful and responsible. The experience has served me well.
Getting back to the original topic....here’s my question.
Let’s suppose all you vegetarians have convinced me to transition to vegetarianism (especially the commentator who is a vet...provided excellent reasoning, point-by-point).
What’s the next step? Can anyone recommend online resources that offer a sort of “Vegetarians for Dummies” approach, especially with regard to recipes and how to integrate this new practice within a family with children?
Also, I am interested in ways to eat this way on a lean budget (do-it-yourself). Thanks.
The more Web links the better but please avoid those that are too “preachy” — I’m already mostly convinced without seeing livestock gore videos.
I believe the issue was the number of animals put down that are healthy rather than sick due to constraints in available space and/or time spent in while captive.
That’ a toughy. It is the job of the government, and hence the “dog pounds” to keep strays off the streets as a matter of safety. And there are an abundance of strays out there, which is not a safe situation for people or other animals. So in the mean time, many shelters do what they think they have to.
On the other hand, if human beings in general were more responsible about the handling of domestic animals, in such ways as getting them spayed or neutered, there would not be a stray problem. The problem is a man made problem, and it ought to be the responsibility of humans to deal with it ethically. in many cities there are shelters that do not kill unadopted animals. Where I live in New York, for example, there is the nearby North Shore Animal League. Adoption of cruelty-free animal control measures and a stricter enforcement of animal cruelty laws would most certainly be the most ethical way to handle the overpopulation of strays in our country.
I can sympathize that is a bit unfair to blame shelters personally for what amounts to a systemic human societal problem. But regardless, there is nothing particularly hypocritical about PETA euthanizing suffering animals and criticizing the killing of animals that are not suffering.
amgriffin - 08 April 2008 07:01 AM
Wow, that’s terrible. I am aware that in some places dog is not too uncommon a dish, especially in populations that experience serious food insecurity. In those circumstances I can’t blame people who eat dog to stay alive, but I wouldn’t want to eat dog, myself. To be tricked into it sounds like something one wouldn’t get over soon.
George,
I agree with amgriffin. It sounds traumatizing to me too. And your story has a poignant reach because of the way that so many of us bond so deeply with our companion animals. I have seen both dogs and cats for sale along with other more recognizable Western food animals at “livestock” markets in Guangzhou, China. Dogs and cats are not so uncommonly eaten in much of China. This horrifies most Westerners, but it would be hypocritical to single out and condemn the Chinese for their food choices when Westerners so commonly eat pigs, cows, sheep and lamb. Especially considering how much more inhumane American factory farms often are as compared to traditional street markets.
Of course, I am not advocating that anyone anywhere should eat dogs or cats. People in various parts of the world eat primates and dolphins, and historically there have been many societies in which people ate fellow human beings. As I see it, I am quite comfortable asserting that few humans in the 21st century have any sort of moral excuse for hurting any animal that is capable of suffering.
What’s the next step? Can anyone recommend online resources that offer a sort of “Vegetarians for Dummies” approach, especially with regard to recipes and how to integrate this new practice within a family with children?
1. Don’t go cold tofu. - Start by weaning out pig, cow, sheep, lamb, etc. and allowing yourself poultry and fish. If you can do that much you will have already made a tremendous positive impact on the world. Then if you get comfortable, after taking as long as you need, drop the poultry and as a third stage the fish. And don’t be too hard on yourself if you relapse.
2. Constantly reflect on why you are doing it. - Some people are vegetarian because their religious beliefs require it. As a humanist you would be doing it because you want to do it. No food is forbidden. Animal meat is only something that the rational part of you does not want. Similarly, certain animal products might not be off limits to you as they are to religious vegetarians. I go by the “does it suffer” rule. Oysters and clams are not such a big deal as are cows. Honey from bees, which is off limits to some religious vegans, is not the least bit of a problem to me.
3. Focus on what you get. Not on what you don’t get. - Vegetarianism is not about the vegetables. In fact, meat eaters who have a nutritious and healthy diet should be eating as much vegetables as so called “vegetarians.” This term is a misname for people who don’t eat meat, a historical throwback to the 19th century when it was initially coined by The British Vegetarian Society. The real shift in the non-animal diet should be an increase in protein rich legumes (beans, lentils, nuts, seeds, etc.) and for some involves an increase in egg and dairy intake. Just for the record, all of these things cost less, virtually anywhere in the world, then does animal flesh.
I can only second erasmusinfinity’s excellent advice! I gave up mammalian meat and poultry initially. I have since pretty much dropped fish, though not entirely. And while I try to buy eggs and dairy produced in ways I am ethically comfortable with, I don’t get worked up about where the eggs came from every time I have a piece of cake in a restaurant. I don’t expect to change the entire world, just minimize my own contribution to suffering as best I can. Such an outlook will, I think, produce better results for most of us in the long run than radical conversion to the most extreme/ideal position.
Also, if you do eat dairy/eggs/seafood, you probably won’t have to worry excessively about balancing essentialy amino acids and such. A strictly vegan diet is, I think, a bit more work than just a meatless diet, so you might want to start as erasmus suggests. And since you mentioned it, I would also be very careful with respect to any children. Their nutritional needs are quite different from those of an adult up to and through adolescence, and you should probably consult a pediatrician or nutritionist and be really sure you know what you’re doing if you decide to eliminate animal products from their diet. FWIW, my wife and daughter are not vegetarians, and while it’s a bit more work sometimes for me to prepare different foods, it hasn’t really been a big deal. Again as erasmus points out, the lack of a literally or metaphorically religious objection to meat on my part means I don’t feel obliged to require everyone else to follow my choices. I’ve had some interesting conversations with my daughter (7 years old) about why I I don’t eat meat, so I certainly share my thoughts with her, but I also endeavor to let her make her own choices insofar as she’s ready to.
As far as kids are concerned, I find it interesting that my younger son dislikes eating meat and my older one loves it. The younger one seems to look at meat exactly the same way I did when I was a kid: he points to a part of a chicken on his plate and starts asking me why the skin doesn’t stick to the meat, why this vein is this colour and that vein a different one. I know he sees a dead animal in front of him, not food. Tchaikovsky once said he was born an alcoholic. I know my son and I were born vegetarians. I only wish I hated cigarettes as much as I hate meat.
I will eat eggs and dairy products because the animal doesn’t suffer.
Depends. If the chickens and cows are held in industry like stables, they suffer, and if they do not produce eggs or milks anymore they will be killed industrial.
Do you have in America also labels for food that is guaranteed ecological, or ‘animal-friendly’?
Do you have in America also labels for food that is guaranteed ecological, or ‘animal-friendly’?
We do have some labels, but they are a rather young phenomenon and their legitimacy is often questionable. The “organic” label, for example, is fuzzy in definition, questionably regulated, and doesn’t particularly measure conditions of cruelty to animals. It aims to state some abstract notion af “naturalness” that I don’t entirely agree about the importance of. In the case of dairy, the USDA organic label seems to mean something positive because part of the criterion is supposed to be a lack of the use of bovine growth hormone to increase a cow’s milk production. “Grass fed” is placed on some milk packages, which also sounds nice. I hope that they really are.
Eggs need not be cruel unless farmers abuse the chickens. In general, I think that “cage free” eggs are better for the chickens then eggs produced in batteries. So the “cage free” label is one that I look for.
There also need not be any cruelty associated with the production of dairy products, but it is true that there often is. First, there is the matter of inducing lactation in the mother cow via impregnation. This process is generally coordinated in conjunction with the meat industry. Offspring that are born as result of the impregnation are generally hauled off to be made into beef or dairy cows themselves. Second, the production of many cheeses involves a substance known as rennet, which is basically acid taken from the stomach of a cow that has been killed. Many cheeses do not use “animal rennet” and instead use “vegetable rennet.” It sometimes specifies on the package, but usually doesn’t.
HERE is an excellent resource on cheeses that are free of animal rennet.
Regardless and all-in-all, the consumption of dairy involves considerably less suffering for animals, overall, then does the consumption of meat because of the quantity of milk produced per cow harmed is much greater than the amount of flesh consumed directly when eating meat. While some people choose to forgo dairy entirely, which I think is commendable, I also think that it is important to keep in mind that different levels of vegetarianism still serve constructive ends overall. One shouldn’t turn their back on all vegetarianism just because they find it difficult to maintain the self-discipline of a vegan. It would already be wonderful for a meat eater to simply give up eating pigs, cows, sheep and lamb.
I will eat eggs and dairy products because the animal doesn’t suffer.
If you accept what that “Meet The Meat” video says (and I don’t) then dairy is as much a part of the problem as any other aspect of animal farming.
Kyu
I don’t see how. If you don’t milk a cow she gets sore and dries up, so in effect, it is helpful to her. She doesn’t suffer from being milked, but then of course the cows my family/relatives had were not given hormones.
BTW, I didn’t watch the video. I figured it was about meat and/or a bunch of hype so I didn’t bother with it.
