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Cat Religions vs. Monkey Religions
Posted: 17 April 2008 02:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Wouldn’t Hinduism be poly- or henotheistic? And I know it’s possible to be an atheist-hindu just as one can be an atheist-jew.  I don’t think you could rightly call it theistic.

And, while I could see some forms of Buddhism appearing to be, or being religious and irrational in some regard, I think there is a strong rational core to Buddhism. It’s not really a fair characterization to assume all forms of Buddhism have metaphysical baggage.

I agree that quakers, or Anabaptists and the like are inheriantly irrational, and for a few reasons, I do not think the same applies to Buddhism which isn’t dogmatic.

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Posted: 17 April 2008 02:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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goodthink - 17 April 2008 02:09 PM

Wouldn’t Hinduism be poly- or henotheistic? And I know it’s possible to be an atheist-hindu just as one can be an atheist-jew.  I don’t think you could rightly call it theistic.

Well, I was viewing monotheism and polytheism both as versions of theism, FWIW. Yes, there are some cultural Jews who are atheists; there is a question within the Jewish (and, I would suppose, the Hindu) community as to whether and to what extent nonbelievers are truly followers of the religion. E.g., look at what happened to Spinoza. But this is probably a somewhat OT discussion.

goodthink - 17 April 2008 02:09 PM

And, while I could see some forms of Buddhism appearing to be, or being religious and irrational in some regard, I think there is a strong rational core to Buddhism. It’s not really a fair characterization to assume all forms of Buddhism have metaphysical baggage.

We had a discussion on that somewhere awhile back. I do agree that Buddhism has the strongest rational core of all the major world religions, however all historical forms of Buddhism do involve belief in reincarnation and karma, which are non-evidence-based. There are also many very popular Mahayana practices that amount to forms of polytheism. There are some contemporary western forms of the religion that attempt to do away with those beliefs, but they are very much in the minority.

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Posted: 17 April 2008 02:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Mriana - 17 April 2008 01:35 PM

Well, all joking aside, here are my issues with Buddhism and Hinduism- they are both just as superstitious and irrational/illogical as other forms of theism, including Xianity.  Quakers are a branch of Xianity, last time I look, EXCEPT they are a little more liberal than other Xtian sects.  Almost like the U.U.  However, I have not studied the Quakers enough to know for sure what they teach exactly.  Now, I could go a little more in detail concerning why I see them as being like other forms of theism, but that could be an extremely long post.  It all depends on how much detail you are looking for.

Absolutely ... I don’t know if it’s true but I heard that Quakers tend to go with a “spare the rod, spoil the child” type philosophy.

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Posted: 17 April 2008 02:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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erasmusinfinity - 17 April 2008 01:42 PM
Shay - 17 April 2008 10:53 AM

Do you see what I am saying that there may be models that are not really atheistic and not really theistic?

I really don’t think there are.  A theist is a thing.  An atheist is not a thing.  It is only the lack of the thing that the theist is.  If a model is not theistic, then it is by definition atheistic.  In other words, “not theistic.”

Which is why agnostics (despite their protestations) are still atheists.

erasmusinfinity - 17 April 2008 01:42 PM
Shay - 17 April 2008 10:53 AM

You can use any model that you find fitting to your preferences.

A rose by any other name is still a rose.  Call it what you will.  You are still either a theist or you are not one.

Indeed.

Kyu

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Posted: 17 April 2008 07:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Kyuuketsuki UK - 17 April 2008 02:39 PM
Mriana - 17 April 2008 01:35 PM

Well, all joking aside, here are my issues with Buddhism and Hinduism- they are both just as superstitious and irrational/illogical as other forms of theism, including Xianity.  Quakers are a branch of Xianity, last time I look, EXCEPT they are a little more liberal than other Xtian sects.  Almost like the U.U.  However, I have not studied the Quakers enough to know for sure what they teach exactly.  Now, I could go a little more in detail concerning why I see them as being like other forms of theism, but that could be an extremely long post.  It all depends on how much detail you are looking for.

Absolutely ... I don’t know if it’s true but I heard that Quakers tend to go with a “spare the rod, spoil the child” type philosophy.

Kyu

I don’t know their doctrine well enough to say anything about that.

goodthink - 17 April 2008 02:09 PM
Wouldn’t Hinduism be poly- or henotheistic? And I know it’s possible to be an atheist-hindu just as one can be an atheist-jew.  I don’t think you could rightly call it theistic.

Doug said:

Well, I was viewing monotheism and polytheism both as versions of theism, FWIW.

I was doing the same as Doug.  It’s all theism whether it be mono or poly and yes, it is possible to be an atheist-Hindu.  I don’t see why not, esp if you see the stories as just that- stories and there are some pretty interesting Hindu stories- Hanuman is one I think is interesting and the teenage Krishna has some wild stories too.  While Krishna was in “high school” he was a “jock” in which all the girls swooned over.  LOL  Hey, I can use my own imagination and poke a little harmless fun at the stories.  :D

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Posted: 18 April 2008 06:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Mriana - 17 April 2008 07:41 PM

yes, it is possible to be an atheist-Hindu.  I don’t see why not, esp if you see the stories as just that- stories and there are some pretty interesting Hindu stories- Hanuman is one I think is interesting and the teenage Krishna has some wild stories too.  While Krishna was in “high school” he was a “jock” in which all the girls swooned over.  LOL  Hey, I can use my own imagination and poke a little harmless fun at the stories.  :D

Right, but you don’t have to be a Hindu to enjoy the stories. Heck, I enjoy many stories of the Bible, and indeed of all religious traditions. I like myths, they’re fun to read.

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Posted: 18 April 2008 01:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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I wasn’t saying one had to be a Hindu to enjoy the stories.  I obviously like their monkey god stories.  I think they are cool!  :D It’s the same thing as enjoying the stories about the Greek gods.  We aren’t all Greeks, but we enjoy those too.

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Posted: 18 April 2008 03:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Yes, as a child I thought that the Roman myths and Greek myths were as great a read as the Christian myths. I also enjoyed the Mother Goose myths, Santa Claus myths, the Easter Bunny myths, and the Hallowe’en and Tooth Fairy myths. And I shared a love of all of these storied with my children, but they are all STILL myths/fairy tales (don’t get me started on leprechauns and the stories can go on and on and on)
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Posted: 21 April 2008 07:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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I’m terribly sorry, but I’m still bogged down in the metaphors Shay originally used to illustrate his concept.  Cats have to carry their kittens by the scruff of the neck because their kittens can’t hold on themselves.  The kitten co-operates with her mother by hanging quietly, curling her legs up so that they don’t drag on the ground too much (as a cat owner, I have watched this many times).  The monkey mother, on the other hand, doesn’t completely rely on her baby holding on.  I’m kind of lost.  Can we re-phrase the point under discussion?  wink

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Posted: 21 April 2008 06:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Cat Religions vs. Monkey Religions

Sounds like it should be something from the Man-Kzin Wars.

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Posted: 02 May 2008 03:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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I got here via search engine, a bit late for the party perhaps, but I just had to find out what people have against cat religion.

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Posted: 05 May 2008 11:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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I’m still trying to figure out what they mean by a “cat religion”.

So tell me about yourself.  I adore cats myself, although I don’t literally believe they are gods, I can understand why the Egyptians worshipped them as such.

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Posted: 05 May 2008 01:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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CatsAreGods - 02 May 2008 03:52 AM

I got here via search engine, a bit late for the party perhaps, but I just had to find out what people have against cat religion.

I have nothing against Bast worshippers, except I find it a bit superstitious.  I adore cats and have three furry adopted daughters of my own, but I don’t worship them.  However, I would be very upset if someone did them harm, but it would not really be Bast coming down on the person who hurt them.  It would be me, because they are like family to me.  There is a vast difference between that and considering them gods though.  IF anything, they view me either as a goddess or an adopted mother.  I’m not sure which. LOL  I will admit I do attribute some anthropomorphic characteristics to them, but then again, sometimes they try to be humanoid- ie drink with their “hands” or try to drink out of a glass like a human.  They just haven’t gotten the hang of the glass though and make a mess more often than not.  I have thought about getting them a non-spill sippy cup since they are so determined.  LOL  I think they should stick with trying to use their “hands” to drink water though.  They have more success with that one.

Since you asked the opposite question though, I’m not sure what the problem is for one not to believe in Bast.

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Posted: 05 May 2008 02:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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advocatus - 05 May 2008 11:11 AM

I’m still trying to figure out what they mean by a “cat religion”.

So tell me about yourself.  I adore cats myself, although I don’t literally believe they are gods, I can understand why the Egyptians worshipped them as such.

Hey, you’re halfway there then! And thanks for showing an interest without laughing…believe me, that’s a big deal.

I’m going to quote from the appropriate page at CatReligion.org here:

We don’t believe that cats are actually gods, in the sense that they created the sun, the earth, and humans and so on. But we do know that cats are divine, in the sense that they are embued with spirit and souls, and that they can act as gurus, prophets, and spirit guides. They help humans with our dreams, and are able to give us the gift of unconditional love as a demonstration of the happiness and contentment we can all have. And some cats are so wise, so powerful, and so special that we do think of them as gods or goddesses. Or, at the very least, teachers and prophets.

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Posted: 05 May 2008 02:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Mriana - 05 May 2008 01:32 PM
CatsAreGods - 02 May 2008 03:52 AM

I got here via search engine, a bit late for the party perhaps, but I just had to find out what people have against cat religion.

I have nothing against Bast worshippers, except I find it a bit superstitious.  I adore cats and have three furry adopted daughters of my own, but I don’t worship them.  However, I would be very upset if someone did them harm, but it would not really be Bast coming down on the person who hurt them.  It would be me, because they are like family to me.  There is a vast difference between that and considering them gods though.  IF anything, they view me either as a goddess or an adopted mother.  I’m not sure which. LOL  I will admit I do attribute some anthropomorphic characteristics to them, but then again, sometimes they try to be humanoid- ie drink with their “hands” or try to drink out of a glass like a human.  They just haven’t gotten the hang of the glass though and make a mess more often than not.  I have thought about getting them a non-spill sippy cup since they are so determined.  LOL  I think they should stick with trying to use their “hands” to drink water though.  They have more success with that one.

Since you asked the opposite question though, I’m not sure what the problem is for one not to believe in Bast.

There’s no problem, to me, for anyone to believe in Bast, Allah, God, Xenu, or anything/anyone else. I don’t really care how/what anyone believes, as long as they don’t try to control me and tell me what I have to believe, or tell me that my beliefs are evil or incorrect or whatever.

I’d like to invite you to visit CatReligion.org and find out what we’re about, though. It’s not traditional Bast worship, or blind cat worship, or really like anything that I’ve ever heard of. Cats, as I’m sure you’ve noticed since you consider them family, are nowhere near the “cute, but dumb animals” stereotype that so many people have of them. They have really interesting abilities to affect our existence, from calming us down to moderating our dreams.

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