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Cat Religions vs. Monkey Religions
Posted: 05 May 2008 02:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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Here’s another question CatsAreGods, actually more than one:  Why can’t cats be divine in the sense of love- we love them and they love us and as cat caregivers (I don’t like the word “owner”) we manage to build a special communication with them- esp our own cats.  Somehow I wonder how this love for cats went beyond seeing them as family and ending up with putting them on a pedastool.  How do they help humans with dreams?

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Posted: 05 May 2008 02:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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How can cats be prophets? They can’t even speak. Indeed, what are cats capable of predicting?

Cats are intelligent, but no more so than many other animals, and less so than many. I love cats as much as the next person, but hyperbole doesn’t really get us anywhere.

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Posted: 05 May 2008 02:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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CatsAreGods - 05 May 2008 02:28 PM

There’s no problem, to me, for anyone to believe in Bast, Allah, God, Xenu, or anything/anyone else. I don’t really care how/what anyone believes, as long as they don’t try to control me and tell me what I have to believe, or tell me that my beliefs are evil or incorrect or whatever.

Oh I’m not going to tell you your beliefs are evil or incorrect, but I will wonder if it’s taking one’s love for cats a little too far.

I’d like to invite you to visit CatReligion.org and find out what we’re about, though. It’s not traditional Bast worship, or blind cat worship, or really like anything that I’ve ever heard of. Cats, as I’m sure you’ve noticed since you consider them family, are nowhere near the “cute, but dumb animals” stereotype that so many people have of them. They have really interesting abilities to affect our existence, from calming us down to moderating our dreams.

Oh no.  They are not dumb.  In fact, sometimes I swear they can say a few words, like meow-ning (for morning) and mewk (for milk).  Either that are we’ve developed our own system of communication that the four of us can understand. However, being hard of hearing, my girls will tell me when someone is at the door and I can’t hear the visitor due to being in another room.  They are my ears sometimes and seem to know what the important things are that I need to know about.  If it wasn’t for them, I would have slept through a couple tornado sirens that might have meant trouble since it came within a few blocks of us.  I don’t think it was the sirens that bothered them, but the abnormally high winds. They weren’t about to let me sleep through it.

Thanks for the invite.  I’ve been poking around a little on the site already.

oh I want to say, there is a difference though between animals, like horses, cats and dogs being disturbed by the weather, thus waking up their human, and them prophesing.  It’s the need for survival and they will drag, alert, etc a human they care about.

[ Edited: 05 May 2008 02:47 PM by Mriana ]
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Posted: 05 May 2008 04:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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Mriana - 05 May 2008 02:33 PM

Here’s another question CatsAreGods, actually more than one:  Why can’t cats be divine in the sense of love- we love them and they love us and as cat caregivers (I don’t like the word “owner”) we manage to build a special communication with them- esp our own cats.

Well, you’ve raised a number of interesting issues there yourself.

There are a number of different roles that humans play with regard to cats. Some see their cats as family; others as friends. Many see them only as “pets”, and those are most likely to think of themselves as “owners”.

Cats are divine in the sense of love…for is love not divine? Anyone who can truly love has touched the spark of the divine.

Somehow I wonder how this love for cats went beyond seeing them as family and ending up with putting them on a pedestal.

Well, I obviously can’t speak for anyone but myself but the intention is to turn people on to the idea that cats are very special. They interact with us differently than dogs, hamsters, or fish, because they are different…not just different because they’re not dogs, etc but because cats have unique abilities.

How do they help humans with dreams?

Cats work with humans in many ways. They moderate dreams, in the sense that they can protect us from dream experiences that they judge might be harmful for us…kind of like what people do when they moderate a forum grin And they can act as guides for spiritual and emotional experiences.

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Posted: 05 May 2008 04:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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dougsmith - 05 May 2008 02:40 PM

How can cats be prophets? They can’t even speak. Indeed, what are cats capable of predicting?

Of course they can speak. You may not be able to hear them, but they certainly can. Check on Amazon, there are literally dozens of books on animal communication.

I have not yet encountered a cat prophet personally, but having already met a cat goddess who died and was reincarnated, and an ancient cat teacher, I have no doubt that there are prophets out there as well.

Cats are intelligent, but no more so than many other animals, and less so than many. I love cats as much as the next person, but hyperbole doesn’t really get us anywhere.

Well, cats would no doubt rank low on any human-centric intelligence test. But I dare say that humans would rank just as low by any cat-devised system. Most human doctors have to resort to tests to find out what’s wrong with someone, but cats can tell with a simple butt sniff.

I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out. Still, I’ve learned a lot in the past 7 years that I never would have dreamed of before. And I was raised in the strictest kind of East Coast scientific traditions, and I’m not New Agey at all. So I may be new around here, but don’t dismiss me as a nut out of hand, please, just because what I’m talking about may sound weird even to most cat lovers.

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Posted: 05 May 2008 04:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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Animal communication is very rudimentary. What I mean is that to be able to prophesy one must be able to:

(1) come up with accurate predictions,

(2) communicate those predictions.

Precisely which predictions are cats claimed to make? How can cats communicate those predictions? I am quite aware of the range of cat vocalizations. (I’ve lived with cats many years). But their predictive capacities are going to be entirely rudimentary, and they cannot communicate anything even remotely akin to a prediction.

I’m also wondering what you mean about cat goddesses and cats being reincarnated. Cat minds like human minds reside in their brains. They do not survive death. There is no good evidence for any sort of reincarnation. And what precisely is a “cat goddess”? The ones I am familiar with are decidedly human creations, e.g., the egyptian god Bast whose veneration included massive amounts of cat sacrifices.

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Posted: 05 May 2008 04:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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CatsAreGods - 05 May 2008 04:00 PM

Cats are divine in the sense of love…for is love not divine? Anyone who can truly love has touched the spark of the divine.

I think we are using divine differently.  I’m using it in the sense of extreme emotion, not in a religious sense.  It’s one of the hazards of reclaiming a word, I guess.

How do they help humans with dreams?

Cats work with humans in many ways. They moderate dreams, in the sense that they can protect us from dream experiences that they judge might be harmful for us…kind of like what people do when they moderate a forum grin And they can act as guides for spiritual and emotional experiences.

confused No insult intended, but I find this a bit far fetched.

BTW, thanks for correcting pedestal.  I looked and looked for that word in the dictionary to find the correct spelling and just could not find it.

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Posted: 05 May 2008 04:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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dougsmith - 05 May 2008 04:30 PM

Animal communication is very rudimentary. What I mean is that to be able to prophesy one must be able to:

(1) come up with accurate predictions,

(2) communicate those predictions.

Precisely which predictions are cats claimed to make? How can cats communicate those predictions? I am quite aware of the range of cat vocalizations. (I’ve lived with cats many years). But their predictive capacities are going to be entirely rudimentary, and they cannot communicate anything even remotely akin to a prediction.

I’m also wondering what you mean about cat goddesses and cats being reincarnated. Cat minds like human minds reside in their brains. They do not survive death. There is no good evidence for any sort of reincarnation. And what precisely is a “cat goddess”? The ones I am familiar with are decidedly human creations, e.g., the egyptian god Bast whose veneration included massive amounts of cat sacrifices.

Well, if you believe in an afterlife and love your cat to death, what a way to go. (sarcastic humour)

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Posted: 06 May 2008 12:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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dougsmith - 05 May 2008 04:30 PM

Animal communication is very rudimentary. What I mean is that to be able to prophesy one must be able to:

(1) come up with accurate predictions,

(2) communicate those predictions.

Precisely which predictions are cats claimed to make?

Did you miss my previous posting perhaps? Perhaps I’m being pushy by assuming cat prophets, but I think it’s a fair leap considering the other cats of power I’m familiar with.

How can cats communicate those predictions? I am quite aware of the range of cat vocalizations. (I’ve lived with cats many years). But their predictive capacities are going to be entirely rudimentary, and they cannot communicate anything even remotely akin to a prediction.

Cat vocalizations are entirely beside the point. Cats make vocalizations only as humans make basic grunts and exclamations, when language doesn’t communicate properly or is too much trouble for the moment. They often use them with humans when they cannot communicate in the normal way, which is what humans call telepathy. They talk to each other this way all the time, and are happy to talk to humans when they can. I know someone who can literally call her cat when she’s on a trip and find out how things are going at home, just like a cell phone. Laugh if you want, because I did when I first heard about it, but I’ve gotten way too much external proof to doubt it at this point. And really, count those books on Amazon before you count this out.

Don’t think I’m trying to belittle you by saying this, because I’m not, but you may just not be able to hear cats. I myself can only hear them on rare occasions. As I alluded to in another post, I mostly was taught to use my left brain and ignore the right half altogether. This is a relatively recent “development” in humans (that has caused us many of the social problems we have today, but let’s not go there for now).

I’m also wondering what you mean about cat goddesses and cats being reincarnated. Cat minds like human minds reside in their brains. They do not survive death. There is no good evidence for any sort of reincarnation.

It really makes you stop and think (no pun intended)...how all this evolution and so on has brought us to the point where we can assume that we are born, live and die in generally less than 100 years and that’s all, folks. Where does our “mind” come from, then? How do we even know we exist? And how do we progress as a species?

It’s a basic axiom of physics that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only changed in form. Well, your “mind” or “soul” or “consciousness” is also a form of energy. It’s certainly not simply a bunch of little gray cells.

The advantage, and disadvantage, of being close to cats is that their life cycle is faster than ours. So we are in a position to observe deaths and rebirths among cats that we’re close to, much more often than with humans. And so I can say that I have observed cats (or at least one cat) reincarnating, and not only that but specifically directing their own reincarnation. As far as I know (and this is all quite new to me too so I may be incorrect), cats are the only species that can do this.

I have a lot more evidence of that, at least in my own experience, than anyone does of people allegedly performing similar feats thousands of years ago in the Middle East.

And what precisely is a “cat goddess”? The ones I am familiar with are decidedly human creations, e.g., the egyptian god Bast whose veneration included massive amounts of cat sacrifices.

Well, please make up your mind…either you believe in reincarnation or you don’t. Because if you are stating as a fact that Bast is a human creation, then clearly you must be claiming you were there back then to witness this creation personally. Otherwise, you have no evidence that Bast is not, in fact, a true goddess who perhaps predated humans altogether.

And just because humans occasionally, or even often, do silly or stupid things (as in cat sacrifices) does not mean they are entirely hopeless. I have great hope for humans in spite of these failings.

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Posted: 06 May 2008 12:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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confused (Deeppppp Sighhhh) heeeerrrrrreee we go again!!!!!!!!!!!! big surprise

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Posted: 06 May 2008 02:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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Shay - 16 April 2008 08:48 PM

Did that make any sense?

I don’t agree with the analogy, and am not 100%  sure the analogy supports your point. 

Is your point that like Richard Feynman, atheists should ask themselves, “what do we care what theists think”?  or is your point that atheists and theists have inherently different world-views and it is impossible to communicate (so don’t bother)...

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Posted: 06 May 2008 09:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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Mriana - 05 May 2008 04:38 PM
CatsAreGods - 05 May 2008 04:00 PM

Cats are divine in the sense of love…for is love not divine? Anyone who can truly love has touched the spark of the divine.

I think we are using divine differently.  I’m using it in the sense of extreme emotion, not in a religious sense.  It’s one of the hazards of reclaiming a word, I guess.

I guess! I never heard of that particular use myself.

But I was making a point too. I’ve gotten to feel much closer to The Universal Mind, or whatever term you want to use, from experiencing unconditional love for and from cats. I’d heard the phrase “God is Love” before without completely understanding it.

How do they help humans with dreams?

Cats work with humans in many ways. They moderate dreams, in the sense that they can protect us from dream experiences that they judge might be harmful for us…kind of like what people do when they moderate a forum grin And they can act as guides for spiritual and emotional experiences.

confused No insult intended, but I find this a bit far fetched.

That’s OK. The first time I heard about it I didn’t believe it either. A lot of the stuff I’m talking about sounds awfully wacky the first time.

Didn’t you say you lived with cats? Can you remember any difference between your dreams now and before?

BTW, thanks for correcting pedestal.  I looked and looked for that word in the dictionary to find the correct spelling and just could not find it.

That’s a basic problem with dictionaries grin

Handy hint for next time: don’t use a dictionary, use Google. Type in whatever you think it is, and it will suggest the correct spelling automagically!

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Posted: 06 May 2008 09:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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CatsAreGods - 06 May 2008 09:00 AM

The first time I heard about it I didn’t believe it either. A lot of the stuff I’m talking about sounds awfully wacky the first time.

I can assure you, this is far from the first time many of us have heard of these notions. Mental telepathy, survival of death, polytheism—these are all well-worn ideas. People have been testing for ESP and other telepathic abilities for decades. Nobody has found anything. People have been claiming that the mind survives death for millennia. But there is no evidence of it whatever. Our brain is our mind—alter the brain, you alter the mind, whether by ingesting psychoactive chemicals or by strokes or other injuries. As the brain dies, the personality slowly declines towards nothing.

What evidence do you bring to the table that cats are reincarnated, much less “specifically directing their own reincarnation”?

As for Bast, are you claiming then that all these egyptian gods are real? Or just the cat god? What about the norse gods, like Odin and Thor? What about the Hindu deities like Vishnu, Krishna and Ganesha? What about the Maya gods like Chac or the Aztec ones like Huitzilopotchtli and Quetzalcoatl? Or the local gods in several score other tribes and locations?

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Posted: 06 May 2008 11:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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CatsAreGods - 06 May 2008 09:00 AM

Didn’t you say you lived with cats? Can you remember any difference between your dreams now and before?

Yes and no respectively.  Then again, I’ve always lived with pets.  I was born with a dog in the house and got a cat when I was seven.  I saw the “miricle of birth” shortly there after, in the middle of the night, in my bed!  Now that was cool!  Yuckie, but cool.  Didn’t change my mind about sharing my bed with my pets though.  Honestly though, I really think that bit about dreams is a myth.

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Posted: 06 May 2008 04:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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dougsmith - 06 May 2008 09:15 AM
CatsAreGods - 06 May 2008 09:00 AM

The first time I heard about it I didn’t believe it either. A lot of the stuff I’m talking about sounds awfully wacky the first time.

I can assure you, this is far from the first time many of us have heard of these notions. Mental telepathy, survival of death, polytheism—these are all well-worn ideas. People have been testing for ESP and other telepathic abilities for decades. Nobody has found anything. People have been claiming that the mind survives death for millennia. But there is no evidence of it whatever. Our brain is our mind—alter the brain, you alter the mind, whether by ingesting psychoactive chemicals or by strokes or other injuries. As the brain dies, the personality slowly declines towards nothing.

Polytheism? So, am I to conclude that monotheism has been proven? Or is that similarly just a “notion”?

“People have been testing for ESP and other telepathic abilities for decades. Nobody has found anything.”—Sorry, I just had to see that again in print. It’s just so…disingenuous. People have been experiencing ESP and other telepathic abilities for centuries, and the fact that the scientific community of the last century has not been able to properly measure it is merely a failure of modern science and technology so far. Communication via infrared and radio transmission is commonplace today, yet not long ago, “modern science” would have been totally unable to even detect it. Or let’s discuss quantum physics, because there we have particles that can communicate with each other instantaneously…faster than the speed of light…which “modern science” again tells us is impossible.

What evidence do you bring to the table that cats are reincarnated, much less “specifically directing their own reincarnation”?

As I believe I mentioned, I witnessed this personally. I would think this should count at least as much as hearsay evidence of similar tales from two millennia ago.

As for Bast, are you claiming then that all these egyptian gods are real? Or just the cat god? What about the norse gods, like Odin and Thor? What about the Hindu deities like Vishnu, Krishna and Ganesha? What about the Maya gods like Chac or the Aztec ones like Huitzilopotchtli and Quetzalcoatl? Or the local gods in several score other tribes and locations?

This is coming dangerously close to mocking my beliefs, which is not something I expected at this particular site, especially from an admin. I didn’t come here with trolling or “religious wars” in mind, but only to get involved in what I thought was a thoughtful discussion about cat religion.

I have replied to each of your queries to me calmly and point by point. On the other hand, you have been often ignoring most of my responses or discussing mere snippets. Your last paragraph clearly implies, in spite of my talking solely about cats, that you expect me to believe in, or somehow be an apologist for, every “pagan” god that you perhaps don’t approve of. Well, do you have any evidence that any of them are not real? Or that there’s some other god that somehow is real, or more real than they are?

I am not worried about votes here. There are about 1 billion Christians and a similar number of Muslims who believe in an invisible God who last spoke to anyone thousands of years ago. Because of my own experiences and the experiences of others, I choose to believe that cats have a lot more to offer me spiritually than any invisible god whose adherents have caused untold damage and destruction to humanity over the centuries.

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