Stargate: The Ark of Truth
Posted: 21 April 2008 06:56 AM   [ Ignore ]
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Has anyone seen the DVD yet?  The metaphor concerning our struggle against false gods have never been more obvious.  Apparently a couple of million years ago, when the Altarians were being overwhelmed by the Ori, they constructed a device (the Ark of Truth) which emitted a light wave that could force people to believe whatever was programmed into it.  They intended to use it on the Ori’s followers, depriving them of a good deal of their power.  But in the end they decided not to use it.  One of the Altarians made a speech that could have been drafted by the board of directors at CSI:  “We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experiment, through argument and debate, but most of all freedom of will.  I will not compromise the fundamental tenets of my devotion in order to preserve it.”

They buried it and left it behind when they came to the Milky Way galaxy, so now the Stargate team has to take the Odyssey through the supergate and find it, guided only by the clues left behind by Merlin.  And if that weren’t bad enough, their IOC (Internation Oversight Committee, remember them?) representative is along for the ride, and he has a backup plan that only makes matters worse!

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Posted: 21 April 2008 10:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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The metaphor or “Origin” for “Creationism” was fairly obvious from the first episode of S9 IMO.

Enjoyable episode even if it wasn’t the huge battle us fans had hoped for.

Kyu

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Posted: 28 April 2008 07:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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It was a little bit disappointing, not up to some of the best episodes of the series, but it was okay.

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Posted: 25 May 2008 08:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Yeah, I agree the movie was disappointing. (A video-loving roommate got to interview the cast by telephone for his TV station, and got a freebie DVD out of it.) They tried to stuff everything from ten seasons into it.

As to the anti-theist tone. I was quite shocked that the way the Ark of ‘Truth’ worked was actually as an Ark of Permanent Persuasion! It just changes your mind, whether you have good reasons or not. I thought that was quite a chilling alternative to the Ori. Comments on that bit?

Also, what some posters here liked best I thought really brought the series down. The later seasons, of which *The Ark of Truth* is the denoument, broke with the earlier and more interesting scenario: these guys are false gods, but there may well be real gods. But in the later series, it’s more anti-theistic: There’s no alternative to the false gods the Goua’uld or to the more powerful but still non-godly Ori.

A lot - a *lot* - of christians are sci-fi enthusiasts, and a lot of vaguely religious people as well. The series did itself no favors by changing their tack to one more aggressive against any idea of God or religion here in the Universe, when before they only attacked false beliefs and treating powerful beings as identical to gods.

I happen to think this ties in with Pullman’s failures at the box-office with *The Golden Compass*. He can claim it’s psychologically real (he’s said so in print, and there’s a separate thread on that in this forum), but the movie audience spoke its boredom with it loudly. and that was after *defanging* it of much of Pullman’s stronger anti-theistic and anti-religious ideas language.

Chris Kirk

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Posted: 25 May 2008 08:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Kyuuketsuki UK - 21 April 2008 10:33 AM

The metaphor or “Origin” for “Creationism” was fairly obvious from the first episode of S9 IMO.

Enjoyable episode even if it wasn’t the huge battle us fans had hoped for.

Kyu

Really? It seems much more to refer to the Ori themselves, not to an alternative to evolution. It’s just a cool and important-sounding word.

cheers,

chris kirk

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Posted: 25 May 2008 09:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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inthegobi - 25 May 2008 08:38 AM

Really? It seems much more to refer to the Ori themselves, not to an alternative to evolution. It’s just a cool and important-sounding word.

Um Kirk, I didn’t say it was anything to do with evolution, I said it was a metaphor for creationism and, to clarify, I meant that in the sense of mode of action not specific beliefs ... to quote someone at creationwiki (which I assume, but don’t know, to be pro Creationism), “... the Ori saga was fun (movies forthcoming) but that’s the most anti-creationist of them all! Think of it - a group of aliens, pushing a book called “Origins” that dulls the wits and commands thought-crushing mindless obedience ...”

inthegobi - 25 May 2008 08:38 AM

I happen to think this ties in with Pullman’s failures at the box-office with *The Golden Compass*. He can claim it’s psychologically real (he’s said so in print, and there’s a separate thread on that in this forum), but the movie audience spoke its boredom with it loudly. and that was after *defanging* it of much of Pullman’s stronger anti-theistic and anti-religious ideas language.

And I happen to think you’re wrong ... not only was it a resounding success in Europe but the prime reason it appeared to fail in the US is understood by most critics (at least over here) to be largely due to the condemnation of the Catholic Church as they apparently didn’t like the way the Magisterium was portayed as analagous to the Vatican (which Pullman himself has, I believe, admitted).

Kyu

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Posted: 25 May 2008 11:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Kyuuketsuki UK - 25 May 2008 09:27 AM
inthegobi - 25 May 2008 08:38 AM

Really? It seems much more to refer to the Ori themselves, not to an alternative to evolution. It’s just a cool and important-sounding word.

Um Kirk, I didn’t say it was anything to do with evolution, I said it was a metaphor for creationism and, to clarify, I meant that in the sense of mode of action not specific beliefs ... to quote someone at creationwiki (which I assume, but don’t know, to be pro Creationism), “... the Ori saga was fun (movies forthcoming) but that’s the most anti-creationist of them all! Think of it - a group of aliens, pushing a book called “Origins” that dulls the wits and commands thought-crushing mindless obedience ...”

Kyu

Hm, that’s a pretty far stretch from what is called ‘creationism’ in the US (we might have a dialect barrier here). And the quote crom creationwiki (amazing what counts as a wiki nowadays) hardly counts as ‘creation-ism’ either. Creationism is a (pseudo)-scientific hypothesis about the beginning of the Universe, life and persons. That hardly makes an appearance in the *stargate* series.

On the money itself - well, here’s a site that seems to be fair about it: http://www.themovieblog.com/2008/01/the-golden-compass-bombed-myth

So it did make money overseas, but so do a lot of drecky movies. Also - the world’s a big place. I wonder how we could tease out more precisely how it did in comparison to other movies overseas? If we care to - it’s more an idle question of mine.

cheers,

Kirk

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Posted: 27 May 2008 06:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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inthegobi - 25 May 2008 08:34 AM

I was quite shocked that the way the Ark of ‘Truth’ worked was actually as an Ark of Permanent Persuasion! It just changes your mind, whether you have good reasons or not. I thought that was quite a chilling alternative to the Ori. Comments on that bit?

That was one of the things I thought was disappointing.  That’s exactly why the Atlanteans didn’t use it, and I agree with them.

The later seasons, of which *The Ark of Truth* is the denoument, broke with the earlier and more interesting scenario: these guys are false gods, but there may well be real gods. But in the later series, it’s more anti-theistic: There’s no alternative to the false gods the Goua’uld or to the more powerful but still non-godly Ori.

I don’t know about that.  The Jaffa are still searching for spiritual truths.  And didn’t Tomar say that even though the Book of Ori was based on a lie, parts of it still contained useful teachings.  He decided to try and revise it a little (whereupon Vala suggested the first thing to go might be the part about burning people alive…).

A lot - a *lot* - of christians are sci-fi enthusiasts, and a lot of vaguely religious people as well.

Quite true.  And I don’t get the feeling that Stargate deliberately attacked such people.  As for Pullman’s book, we’ve got a thread about it somewhere around here.  I don’t think we came to a consensus, but I definitely got the impression that “The Golden Compass” did so poorly at the box office because it was a terrible movie.  wink

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