Hi! I want to say hello, introduce myself and get some advice from you all.  My name is Joe I’m 22 years old.  I grew up in New England.  I had a slightly rocky childhood that ultimately led to me to become fanatically religious. Its actually rather amusing b/c I was the only person I knew who was religious.  For some reason without any outside influence I became fanatically Christian.  I wasn’t following any particular sect or group.  It was just me and the bible.

In High School I was saved from my own narrow mindedness by an outspoken philosophy teacher coincidentally named Mr. Looney, whom I am ever indebted to. Within the coarse of 5/6 brutal months I had completely converted into a fanatical atheist, which I think was really enforced by my own realization that free will is an absolutely meaningless concept.  Anyway over the past decade I have been swinging back and forth between atheism and agnosticism. 

Now let me get into my dilemma…
My father has always pushed me towards becoming an artist.  I suppose he thought that I am quiet, slightly odd and have a natural talent for drawing therefore I am clearly meant to be an artist. I received a very large Art scholarship that deeply influenced the direction of my studies.  My natural inclination was towards reason not art, yet I was sort of forced into art.  In college I majored in philo. and art.  I should say that since I’ve been very young many of my close family members have passed on.  And so I developed the romantic ideology that “this is life! Oh my God! This is Life, Right Now!  And It’s the only thing I’ve Got!  In a finite period of time I will completely cease to exist and that will be it. This is life and what have I been doing with it?  I’ve been agonizing about my future and beating myself up over miniscule daily qualms.  Clearly I need to utilize this thing I have and make the most of it.  I want to run free and live freely.  I want to be a real human, the human that society has denied us all.”

I basically decided that any fate was better than the sterile life society provided.  I didn’t want a house with kids or to be victimized by any of that biologically programmed fear of death drab (no offense to anyone who enjoys such things).  I would’ve preferred to live alone on a deserted island to that.  At school I was accumulating a massive debt that was only worsening.  I also had the perfect backdrop of being an artist which seemed to be a loop hole.  I could to do and be whatever I wanted as an artist.  So although my grades were good I decided to leave college at the end of my sophomore year and enroll in a classical atelier in Europe.  My ultimate goal was to live my life traveling freely occasionally doing artwork. 

That is where I am now.  I’ve been living in Europe for two years studying to become a painter and I realize that although I love art and want to be an artist it is not what fundamentally drives me.  I am driven by thought, reason, and reality.  I always have been.  Equally horrifying to me is the fact that so much of the art world is purely networking and selling yourself.  I cannot do this.  I find base social interaction excruciatingly painful.  The only thing I really want to do is think.  Now I have no other desire for my life than to study theoretical physics and philosophy.  Im positive that I am going to get post graduate degrees in both fields, but that is way in the future.  This is something I will stop at nothing to do.  I don’t care if I have to work 15 hr days. 

If some of you could afford to spare a bit of the vast fund of knowledge circulating on this site I would like to know the best way of going about this.  I have virtually no funds and now I have poor credit.  I will have to earn money throughout the entire process. 

I guess I can break my questions into two categories.
1. How should I go about doing this?
The scholarship is going to pay for another year at my atelier.
-should I get an online degree while studying art?
-should I enroll in a community college and then into liberal arts, etc?
-should I make all the money I need first or work as I’m in school?

2. What schools particularly do people recommend?
-online undergrad universities.
-inexpensive US and international universities, i.e. Australian/ S. American.
-community colleges.
-etc.

Thanks so much your help is highly appreciated

joe.

Ipse - 05 May 2008 04:06 PM

And so I developed the romantic ideology that “this is life! Oh my God! This is Life, Right Now!  And It’s the only thing I’ve Got!  In a finite period of time I will completely cease to exist and that will be it. This is life and what have I been doing with it?  I’ve been agonizing about my future and beating myself up over miniscule daily qualms.  Clearly I need to utilize this thing I have and make the most of it.  I want to run free and live freely.  I want to be a real human the human that society has denied us all.”

Hi, Joe.

First let me say that this quote is more emblematic of an artistic temperament than of the live-your-life-in-conflict temperament of philosophers and scientists. I think you may want to see if you truly enjoy hanging out with philosophers/scientists as much as you enjoy artists. My experience suggests that what makes a career is enjoying the company of those who do it with you.

Ipse - 05 May 2008 04:06 PM

I guess I can break my questions into two categories.
1. How should I go about doing this?
The scholarship is going to pay for another year at my atelier.
-should I get an online degree while studying art?
-should I enroll in a community college and then into liberal arts, etc?
-should I make all the money I need first or work as I’m in school?

2. What schools particularly do people recommend?
-online undergrad universities.
-inexpensive US and international universities, i.e. Australian/ S. American.
-community colleges.
-etc.

I suggest that you narrow your field a bit. When you talk about thinking, you sound like you’re looking for a place where you can reflect on the implications of actions and policies.

One atheist artist-turned-law-student I know online is Emery Wang at http://www.achristianandanatheist.com/. He has an occasional podcast that highlights the dialogue between Christians & Atheists. You may want to pick his brain for advice.

And if you need some help thinking this through, consider getting into some counseling for a while to have a consistent sounding board and guide to help you remain focused.

Good Luck.

(edited for text color since blue is reserved for official moderator/administrator communication)

Welcome to the forum, Joe, and I hope it helps you to find yourself. I very much hesitate to make the sorts of suggestions you ask about. I’d need to know you much better to be able to give any worthwhile advice, and even then I think it’s best for one to follow one’s own nose and instincts.

Hey, thanks for your input; its greatly appreciated. The first thing I’d like to address is that I probably sound rather flip floppy.  I’ve made so many 180 degree opinion changes throughout my life how do I know that I won’t simply do it again on this issue?  Well of coarse it is just impossible for me to truly know that I won’t but the reason I mentioned my religious childhood was to illustrate how I really have not changed that much.  I have always been obsessed with truth or at least what I thought was true.  I know (as well as it is humanly possible) that my primary need is to learn as much about reality as I can and play some sort of role in propelling human understanding.  I don’t really feel a need to defend this position per se. 

NH Baritone - 05 May 2008 06:22 PM

Hi, Joe.

First let me say that this quote is more emblematic of an artistic temperament than of the live-your-life-in-conflict temperament of philosophers and scientists. I think you may want to see if you truly enjoy hanging out with philosophers/scientists as much as you enjoy artists. My experience suggests that what makes a career is enjoying the company of those who do it with you.

Thanks for the Advice, Baritone.  I completely agree.  To clarify, that “live for the moment” ideology is not the ideology I adhere to.  If anything it is an ideology I wanted to adhere to but never really had enough courage to truly execute.  I see it now as being overtly naive.  The way I viewed the world was dramatically different when I found that lifestyle appealing.  I saw myself and nature/reality as potentially having this beautiful relationship yet there was this awkward third wheel called society that was always disrupting us from actualizing our potential.  When I was an undergrad I was really torn between “living” philosophy and studying philosophy.  I thought it would be nobler to actually live by my philosophy and try to escape society by being an artist, even though I wasn’t actually driven by art.  The other option was to study philosophy as an academic and essentially be tied down by society.  I chose the former.  I should say that this choice was also largely influenced by a lack of funds.  Anyway now I see society as a fundamental part of nature and reality and not a third wheel.  I also realize that the relationship I have truly always loved was with thought and reason not with reality itself per se.

I think its a wonderful point you make about enjoying the company of your peers because I am in precisely the situation where I enjoyed my peers far more when I was studying undergrad philo.  My friends here are always talking about painters and art history and painting methods, while the only thing I talk to them about is science and philosophy.  I actually find many artists annoying because much of the time they simply play with ideas without ever really saying anything or drawing any conclusions.

...
So to get back to what you said.  I am curious about what you mean specifically by counseling.  Are you referring to therapy or to an online sort of thing?
Unfortunately I am a starving artist so I don’t have a lot of cash to toss around.

Thanks Again I will have to see if Emery Wang can help.

dougsmith - 06 May 2008 04:07 AM

I very much hesitate to make the sorts of suggestions you ask about. I’d need to know you much better to be able to give any worthwhile advice, and even then I think it’s best for one to follow one’s own nose and instincts.

No doubt Doug, I always find it amusing when people ask for personal advice on an online forum when their question really comes down to choosing between personal preferences.  With me, I know what I want to do I simply don’t know how to go about it.  I want to work towards a degree in theorectical physics, or specifically cosmology.  I am considering getting an online degree but there are so many crap degree websites out there I just don’t know where to begin.  Most of them seem to be business oriented and post grad.  I’m really just trying to figure out what options I have.

Anyway thanks for the consideration.

joe.

Glad to have you here, but I don’t know how to advise you.