Jamy Ian Swiss is universally considered one of the world’s top sleight of hand performers, famous to magicians for his subtlety, skill and depth of understanding of magic’s history. He has appeared on a number of television programs in the United States, Europe, and Japan, including on The Today Show, CBS’s 48 Hours, Comedy Central, CNN, PBS Nova and the PBS documentary, The Art of Magic. He’s performed internationally for corporate clients, lectured to magicians in over a dozen countries, and is a co-producer of New York City’s longest-running Off-Broadway magic show, Monday Night Magic. He is also a co-founder of the National Capital Area Skeptics and the New York City Skeptics, and a long-time contributor to the skeptical movement and its magazines.

In this conversation with D.J. Grothe, Jamy Ian Swiss talks about his skeptical beginnings, and argues that magic done well is an “entertaining form of skepticism, rather than a debased form of mysticism” (as described by Adam Gopnik in the recent profile of Jamy in The New Yorker).  He explores some of the philosophy of why and how magic works, and examines ethical and artistic issues related to the performance of contemporary magic and mentalism, as reflected n the work of a spectrum of performers ranging from Derren Brown to Marc Salem to Uri Geller.  He also wonders about the effectiveness of the skeptical movement overall, and the value of getting involved in the skeptical community.

http://www.pointofinquiry.org

I wonder how DJ and Jamy Ian Swiss feel about Penn & Teller (and various YouTube participants) lifting the veil on the chicanery used to produce magic tricks. As Randi has repeatedly pointed out, even if people know how it’s done, the need to believe in magic (and the supernatural) is so strong, they will forget that they are watching trickery.

The most sure example of this is mentalism. Believers know that there are charlatans out there among the mind-readers and clairvoyants. “But surely,” they think, “my favorite mentalist really has the power to see into my mind and into the future.”

I don’t think that people will turn away from stage magicians because they find out how the tricks are done. Instead, either they’ll go just to see if they can figure it out, and lord their watchfulness over their less observant neighbors.

My understanding about Penn & Teller is that they only lift the veil a very small amount, only with some of the simplest tricks. I’m sure DJ will correct me if I’m wrong, but I think most professional magicians understand that about them, and aren’t concerned with it. After all, P&T;are great stage magicians in their own right!

Here’s a 5-minute video of Penn & Teller performing a magic trick, then revealing how it’s done. (Ignore the banter with Regis at the beginning.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYTmEVFL_NA

And here’s another P&T;revelation during “The View’s” trip to Vegas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPyvAtQYVok

In most cases, Penn and Teller see themselves as entertainers, and if the “exposure” of the trick is as entertaining as the trick itself, they’ll expose it. A classic example is their explanation of “Sleight of Hand”: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qQX-jayixQ

In a similar vein, they’ll sometimes “expose” a trick only to set the audience up for an even bigger trick. Finally, in the past, P+T have just flat out lied about the methods they’re exposing to the public simply for their own amusement. (i.e. On their special “Off the Deep End” if you thought they really made the sub disappear with helicopters, you’ve made them very, very happy

Agreed about P&T. I think they are like any entertainer.. the top notch guys see total hacks regurgitating stale or stolen bits and it irks you (commonplace among comics, musicians also). So they kill the tired old bits.. but it has no impact whatsoever on clever, professional magicians who are always innovating anyway.