2 of 2
2
Numerology
Posted: 11 June 2008 07:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7684
Joined  2008-04-11

What I want to know is: why does that homeopathic pain medication (advertised on late night TV) require 6(!) squirts into your dog’s water dish to work. If it was so good why can’t they concentrate it so they only need one? and why doesn’t a large dog need any more than a toy dog…...and if your dog was hit by a car that broke his hip and wasn’t ‘properly treated’ isn’t that animal abuse?

 Signature 

Church; where sheep congregate to worship a zombie on a stick that turns into a cracker on Sundays…

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 June 2008 11:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4578
Joined  2007-08-31
Jules - 11 June 2008 04:51 PM

Seriously, if there was a miracle herb, would not the pharmaceutical companies have extracted the active ingredient for marketing by now?

Not necessary. If a good medicine can be produced cheaply, the pharmaceutical companies will do everything to stop it. Examples that come to mind are lithium and ORS.

GdB

 Signature 

GdB

“The light is on, but there is nobody at home”

Profile
 
 
Posted: 12 June 2008 04:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  15435
Joined  2006-02-14
GdB - 11 June 2008 11:41 PM

Not necessary. If a good medicine can be produced cheaply, the pharmaceutical companies will do everything to stop it. Examples that come to mind are lithium and ORS.

question

There are a number of very large pharma companies that produce generic drugs ...

 Signature 

Doug

-:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:-

El sueño de la razón produce monstruos

Profile
 
 
Posted: 12 June 2008 04:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4578
Joined  2007-08-31
dougsmith - 12 June 2008 04:07 AM
GdB - 11 June 2008 11:41 PM

Not necessary. If a good medicine can be produced cheaply, the pharmaceutical companies will do everything to stop it. Examples that come to mind are lithium and ORS.

question

There are a number of very large pharma companies that produce generic drugs ...

The problem is that Lithium cannot be patented, same with ORS which basically is a water solution of salt and sugar (the recipe is on Wikipedia…). Of course you can earn some money with it, as you can with gererics, but a medicament which needs a factory to produce it, or much better, a medicament on which you have a patent is much, much better. So you should try to stop the knowledge that these medicaments are useful, or convince people that you expensive alternative is better. Both happen(ed).


GdB

 Signature 

GdB

“The light is on, but there is nobody at home”

Profile
 
 
Posted: 12 June 2008 04:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  15435
Joined  2006-02-14

Right, there’s more money to be made in patented (non-generic) pharma. Pharma companies have more incentive to push higher value products on the public, and to discourage taking generics. But that said, generic drug production is big business as well. For one thing, competent doctors and medical insurance providers do typically steer their patients towards generics when they are just as useful as the higher priced option.

 Signature 

Doug

-:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:-

El sueño de la razón produce monstruos

Profile
 
 
Posted: 12 June 2008 06:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
Moderator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4108
Joined  2006-11-28

One of the great myths of “natural” and herbal medicines and supplements is that they are “free” and so the pharmaceutical industry doesn’t want you to have them. In reality, they are fast becoming big business, and the companies that produce them (some of which are owner by the pharmaceutical industry) are quite profitable. So the argument that mainstream medicine is about profit and CAM is about healing is hogwash.

 Signature 

The SkeptVet Blog
You cannot reason a person out of a position he did not reason himself into in the first place. 
Johnathan Swift

Profile
 
 
Posted: 12 June 2008 08:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7684
Joined  2008-04-11

Not necessary. If a good medicine can be produced cheaply, the pharmaceutical companies will do everything to stop it. Examples that come to mind are lithium and ORS.
GdB

What you get from the pharmaceuticals is a guarantee of dosage and purity of the product. You do not get that with herbals.


Edited to help with the quotation marks. smile

[ Edited: 27 January 2009 04:22 PM by Occam ]
 Signature 

Church; where sheep congregate to worship a zombie on a stick that turns into a cracker on Sundays…

Profile
 
 
Posted: 12 June 2008 10:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4578
Joined  2007-08-31
asanta - 12 June 2008 08:27 AM

What you get from the pharmaceuticals is a guarantee of dosage and purity of the product. You do not get that with herbals.

I know, I did not want to give a general blow against pharmaceuticals. I wanted to remark that there are moments that it is clear that pharmaceutical industries think first about the profit, and then about health. Obviously, most of the times these go hand in hand, but not always, and lithium and ORS are 2 examples of it.

It is a general problem that one can earn money with health. A lot of the alternative healers just want to grab their part of the cake, there surely are a lot of quacks that do not believe in what they sell, but hay, it sells!

GdB

 Signature 

GdB

“The light is on, but there is nobody at home”

Profile
 
 
Posted: 17 June 2008 09:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
Jr. Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  42
Joined  2008-06-10
Jules - 11 June 2008 10:40 AM
awisemanoncesaid - 10 June 2008 08:09 PM

Kind of like the old saying “Visualize yourself winning or doing something before you do it, and it will happen”. Call me crazy but don’t underestimate the power of your mind. Everyone underestimates it.

Ah, like the book “The Secret.” The book touts “like attracts like” and “positive thinking attracts positve reactions.” For example, if you want to get out of poverty you simply envision yourself already living like a king, and the wealth will come to you. If things are not going well in your life, it says this is because you’re not being positive enough. Oprah swears by it, so it must be true…

My sister, a brilliant entrepreneur, fell for this book. Despite being so smart in business, she is very gullible. Some of the people who collaborated to write the book “The Secret” are best known for channeling dead people and speaking in tounges at seminars they charge a lot of money to attend.

But I don’t hold it against her, she is vunerable to this type of thing. She also spends her money on “Pet Psychics” to find out what her cat is thinking, even though I assured her I could read its mind for free. It was thinking of tuna.

...I’m sorry, pet psychic? Introduce me to your sister’s cat and I will tell you what its thinking, free of charge!

Heres a Preview!

-Cat is at food bowl… Your cat is saying its hungry.
-Cat on your lap… Your cat wants to be pet and scratched
-Cat asleep and won’t wake up… I’ve some bad news ma’am…

True to some this may be hogwash, but if you believe in something and it works for you, do it. For example, I know the truth about Santa Clause, but I still choose to believe in a being that, not comes to your house, but has this overwhelming joy and spirit of giving that contributes to the feeling that Christmas brings. It’s like a Heaven. If you believe it, then why not? It doesn’t make you gullible or susceptible to stupid products like the mentioned. It makes you more open-minded and a more open mind is extremely healthy.

[ Edited: 17 June 2008 09:14 PM by awisemanoncesaid ]
 Signature 

_Common sense isn’t so common_

Profile
 
 
Posted: 18 June 2008 06:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2457
Joined  2008-06-03

True to some this may be hogwash, but if you believe in something and it works for you, do it. For example, I know the truth about Santa Clause, but I still choose to believe in a being that, not comes to your house, but has this overwhelming joy and spirit of giving that contributes to the feeling that Christmas brings. It’s like a Heaven. If you believe it, then why not? It doesn’t make you gullible or susceptible to stupid products like the mentioned. It makes you more open-minded and a more open mind is extremely healthy.

I personally love Christmastime, and the spirit of giving that radiates throughout the people. I have fond memories of Dad dressing as Santa when we were little kids and surprising us. I’d say “Daddy, I know it’s you!” and he’d wink at me and say “What are you talking about, I’m Santa!” Wonderful memories, I cherish them.

What bothers me about numerology, astrology, psychics, etc. is not only the money that changes hands, but the fact that someone may believe so truly that they make life-altering, and possibly foolish, decisions based on what the numerologist, astrologist, or psychic says. Examples might be turning down a job offer, buying or not buying a house, marrying or not marrying someone, etc.

But if there is no one taking your money, and it’s your own decision, I suppose believing in your own lucky numbers, etc., is just a harmless game, although I personally think it’s rather silly.

Does anyone have insight on the psychology behind this, and whether it is harmless or harmful? I would love to understand this subject further.

 Signature 

Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it’s a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.    - Lex Luthor

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 June 2008 08:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
Jr. Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  42
Joined  2008-06-10
Jules - 18 June 2008 06:43 AM

True to some this may be hogwash, but if you believe in something and it works for you, do it. For example, I know the truth about Santa Clause, but I still choose to believe in a being that, not comes to your house, but has this overwhelming joy and spirit of giving that contributes to the feeling that Christmas brings. It’s like a Heaven. If you believe it, then why not? It doesn’t make you gullible or susceptible to stupid products like the mentioned. It makes you more open-minded and a more open mind is extremely healthy.

I personally love Christmastime, and the spirit of giving that radiates throughout the people. I have fond memories of Dad dressing as Santa when we were little kids and surprising us. I’d say “Daddy, I know it’s you!” and he’d wink at me and say “What are you talking about, I’m Santa!” Wonderful memories, I cherish them.

What bothers me about numerology, astrology, psychics, etc. is not only the money that changes hands, but the fact that someone may believe so truly that they make life-altering, and possibly foolish, decisions based on what the numerologist, astrologist, or psychic says. Examples might be turning down a job offer, buying or not buying a house, marrying or not marrying someone, etc.

But if there is no one taking your money, and it’s your own decision, I suppose believing in your own lucky numbers, etc., is just a harmless game, although I personally think it’s rather silly.

Does anyone have insight on the psychology behind this, and whether it is harmless or harmful? I would love to understand this subject further.

Spend a little time poking around Google Scholar, you will find some great papers and research documents from (not all) actual psychologists or doctors and the like. Better yet, go to the bookstore or library, get a cup of joe and head to the psychology isle. Tons of great books there. Freud’s a crackpot though. I disagree with most of his work as a psychologist. I know for a fact that in psychological terms, this kind of behavior is perfectly healthy and natural. However, like anything else it cannot become an addiction or obsession which alters your normal day to day. Like an obsessive compulsive disorder. That isn’t healthy. So long as you aren’t harming your daily life, and believe that when you see the number 3214, you don’t freak out and cry. Like that movie 23. It can easily become an obsession, and thats when its harmful. Freud would say that someone who likes the number 4 has some sort of deep sub-conscious desire to have sexual relations with 4. ...crazy dude.

[ Edited: 24 June 2008 09:00 PM by awisemanoncesaid ]
 Signature 

_Common sense isn’t so common_

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 June 2008 09:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7684
Joined  2008-04-11

I believe there is a segment of the population, that for some reason, are afraid of free will and total responsibility for your own actions. If you take an action because of astrology, fung shui, numerology (name your superstition), and the action goes wrong, it’s not your fault—-you took bad advice. Actually, it is not even (superstition) fault, quite possibly you ‘misinterpreted’ or ‘misunderstood’ the information. Thus, not only do you not have to take responsibility, but it is not the fault of the superstition either.

 Signature 

Church; where sheep congregate to worship a zombie on a stick that turns into a cracker on Sundays…

Profile
 
 
Posted: 27 January 2009 02:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
Jr. Member
Avatar
Rank
Total Posts:  19
Joined  2009-01-24

Jules is right. 

This all makes me bash my head into my keyboard repeatedly. These are educated women. How could they possibly believe this crap? I can’t stand some of the things they believe, but continue volunteering with them because the work is important to me. Besides, they are all sweet ladies, even if they are suckers. Hopefully the bits of reason I inject into the conversations start to sink in - but it’s been five years, so I’m not too hopeful.

 

I suppose that bashing our heads will muddle our intelligence enough, eventually, to understand these sweet ladies… that were probably entrusted with children at some point in their lives.  I say that we need to round them up and put them in special places so that they don’t get the chance to twist more children along with them. 

I had a crazy grandma.  She almost burned down the house because someone told her that if she slept all night with a burning candle in her hand, by morning her sins would be forgiven.  There were children in the house when she set her room on fire and was too old and slow to stop the fire when she finally woke up surrounded by flames.

I would say that sweet in the context Jules described would be equal to high risk of damage from stupid, perfectly preventable, acts.

 Signature 

“knowledge is power”

Profile
 
 
   
2 of 2
2