Hello all! Been listening to podcasts of POI for about a year now, and next Friday can never come soon enough now. I can’t say how important this show has been to me and has helped fuel a true rennaisance in my perceptions, beliefs and understanding of the world. Proud to be here. I’m an atheist, and I question just about everything before me, especially political power establishments.
So I’ve felt motivated to join to find out why, this being the virtual epicenter of skeptical inquiry, no airtime (as far as I can tell) has been given to the matter of the huge problems with the official story of the events of 9/11.
Major media news publications have had to acknowledge that the so-called “9/11 Truth movement” is no dismissable matter, but a major political movement; and even if you do buy the official line, I think most people - especially the skeptically-inclined! - would be stunned to learn how little evidence there is for the official Bush administration story that has been used to launch two wars - against the wrong countries!! (see: right there, something stinks...)
So what do people here think? Is there a good reason why DJ Greothe and co. haven’t had, say, Dr David Ray Griffin, Dr. Steven E. Jones (both very interesting subjects because they are both skeptics and religious people!), Richard Gage, Barrie Zwicker, et al., who have uncovered incredible evidence that the 9/11 Commision’s report simply cannot be true, almost in every way. These people could be totally wrong - but why isn’t it being discussed here? Do we really need another show about magicians during these dangerous times?
welcome, its always good to vitually meet another atheist.
the whole 911 thing is a strange one. much of the evidence is secret, including why OBL isn’t dead. The process of scepticism, is to look critically at the world around us, to find the evidence and make a rational choice based on the evidence. Unfortunately, the evidence isn’t in the public domain (I believe) to get the full story about 911, the Iraq invasion and as stated, why OBL isn’t dead.
But other than that, WELOME!!
Ski.
P.S. vancouver, a great city. Have you been skiing, I hear its a good year at whistler?
Hi SkiCarver! Thanks for the welcome. The weather hasn’t settled yet between spring and summer, but it’s mostly quite mild and spared rain in our lovely city. I don’t ski, but that won’t stop me from going to Whistler in August! :D
That’s an interesting take on OBL and 9/11. Funny that all the evidence that Jesus existed is hidden, yet we discuss him freely. Hmmm...I should probably open a topic in the “Politics” forum and get things going proper.
Welcome, dbuffy. Glad to have you here. As for the 9/11 deal, I don’t know. It does seem awfully funny to have had them there literally all your life, a “landmark” that went up shortly after I was born, I think, and now suddenly they are gone. A part of me thinks it was an excuse to go to war with Iraq. They waited too long after that to declare war and used them as one of the excuses. Not only that, it seems like it was a group who acted on their own, not a government. It doesn’t make much sense does it?
Even so, regardless of all the theories and my own skeptism, I can’t answer your questions even though I believe we walked into another “Vietnam” and the twin towers attack was just an excuse. It doesn’t add up to me, but have nothing to back up any of my thoughts about it and they are more than just what I mentioned. So, I remain nuetral, yet skeptical.
Have any of you guys seen any of the documentaries or visiting any of the research websites? I can recommend some good, serious material to get the brain rolling. I mean, I totally bought it: I remember thinking “Yeah! Bomb those Afghan @&%#!!”, but once it turned to Iraq, and once I dug just a tiny bit deeper, the whole thing fell apart.
I’ll post some links. I need to consider what the best movie is for someone who’s not totally sure about the official story or the “conspricay theory” (god, I hate that term!).
We have a lengthy thread about this topic HERE. FWIW I think the claims of the 9/11 conspiracy people are about as likely to be true as that the US government is keeping aliens hostage in Area 51. There are better hobbies out there.
Wow, you really think that! That’s too bad. I’d be curious as to how you can be satisfied with the paucity of evidence from the US gov’t, and what makes something a nutty conspiracy theory versus a viable inquiry?
EDIT: Whoa! I checked out that link; I can see that many people here are NOT open to this line of thought AT ALL! Amazing. I sure would like to know why everyone trusts the Bush administration on this one...huhn. Well, I guess I’m a “conspiracy nut” now. Good to know.
Look, I live in NYC. I know some of the people who were affected. There is more money in lower Manhattan than in some small countries, and the people affected are about as angry as can be, and extremely motivated to find and deal with anyone responsible. They are very politically powerful. It is simply not credible that there is some massive conspiracy that these people haven’t been able to find out. Further, all of the top skeptics’ organizations have dealt with these issues at some length, and yet the conspiracy theorists don’t go away. It’s precisely the same as Area 51, the Kennedy assassination, the Bermuda Triangle, etc. These fantasies take on a life of their own, and a lot of people find hobbies in manufacturing or misinterpreting evidence. Anyhow if you’re really interested in this issue, I’d suggest reading through the thread I linked to before. You’ll find some people there who agree with you, and others who do not.
EDIT: I don’t trust the Bushies on anything. I certainly don’t trust that they were competent enough to manufacture such a complex conspiracy. They are frankly a bunch of wingnut clowns. The deer-in-the-headlights look of Bush on 9/11 said it all ...
Look, I live in NYC. I know some of the people who were affected. There is more money in lower Manhattan than in some small countries, and the people affected are about as angry as can be, and extremely motivated to find and deal with anyone responsible. They are very politically powerful. It is simply not credible that there is some massive conspiracy that these people haven’t been able to find out. Further, all of the top skeptics’ organizations have dealt with these issues at some length, and yet the conspiracy theorists don’t go away. It’s precisely the same as Area 51, the Kennedy assassination, the Bermuda Triangle, etc. These fantasies take on a life of their own, and a lot of people find hobbies in manufacturing or misinterpreting evidence. Anyhow if you’re really interested in this issue, I’d suggest reading through the thread I linked to before. You’ll find some people there who agree with you, and others who do not.
EDIT: I don’t trust the Bushies on anything. I certainly don’t trust that they were competent enough to manufacture such a complex conspiracy. They are frankly a bunch of wingnut clowns. The deer-in-the-headlights look of Bush on 9/11 said it all ...
Thanks for the nice response, Doug; I really wasn’t aware of how tender this subject was around here, I deeply appreciate that you’re from NYC, and I would not want to offend.
I could kind of get into it, one by one, and say why I think questioning 9/11 and political assassinations (I’m definitely not talking about UFO’s, don’t see what that’s got to do with anything) is legitimate, but what can I say? Have you ever considered the fact that the official story of 9/11 is a conspiracy theory? Why is theirs more legitimate? And if it’s about hiding facts, remember: the Manhattan Project involved half a million people, lots of deaths and damage to property, and on one knew about it.
Actually, I’m getting side-tracked here. The question remains: sure, they/I could be wrong: but why don’t we discuss it on the show? If we can have a bully like Chris Hedges on, why can’t we have a “nut” to talk about 9/11? Or have someone from Popular Mechanics to rebutt? Would that destroy the fabric of life?
Oh, and I’m glad you said you don’t trust the Bushies on anything: but why would you trust them with this? His father is in the arms business with the Bin Ladens! Doesn’t that warrant a REAL investigation alone?
As I say, if you’re interested there’s a thread on it where you can bang heads all day long. If someone digs up some credible evidence somewhere, evidence that changes opinions of key people involved, I’m all ears. But not until then, and I don’t have the time, interest or inclination to sift through tens of thousands of pages of data for myself.
The Manhattan Project was undertaken during wartime, did not involve the murder of innocent american civilians, and did not remain secret for long. There is no legitimate comparison here.
Oh, and I’m glad you said you don’t trust the Bushies on anything: but why would you trust them with this? His father is in the arms business with the Bin Ladens! Doesn’t that warrant a REAL investigation alone?
I’m not listening to the Bushies on this. I’m listening to other people involved. Nobody believes the conspiracy except the nuts, sorry to say.
The Bin Laden family is very powerful in the Middle East, but the Bushes’ involvement with the rest of their family goes nowhere towards implicating them in Osama’s terrorism. You may be right that there is some nefarious stuff to investigate in other parts of the middle east, but that’s a separate issue.
Oh, I just noticed that you’re an administrator! Interesting.
Thanks, but I’m going nowhere near that thread! That’s some scary stuff. What can I say? If no ones willing to even look at the problems, well, there you go. You make strong counterpoints there; I don’t agree, but that’s to be predicted, of course. Like you’ve pointed out, raising Bush is kind of a distraction anyway; I agree he’s a complete clown (although his father is a much more important figure).
Thanks Doug. I emailed the radio producers, I’ll see what they say.
