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I can prove aliens exist!
Posted: 28 June 2008 05:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Occam,

My post was written on the assumption you were trying to contradict the original poster’s claim (which is perfectly true). If this is the case - then I don’t understand your argument.

If this is not the case, then accept my apologies.

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Posted: 28 June 2008 02:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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I was only responding to the post immediately prior to mine, #8.  Although my example was a bit different from the one posed.

Occam

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Posted: 10 July 2008 03:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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What’s the purpose of finding planets out side our solar system that may have life? Wouldn’t the nearest planet take 10s of thousands of years to go to?

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Posted: 10 July 2008 01:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Hi guys, thanks for all the discussion, it’s a lot of fun seeing such great minds contemplate such a simple question. Sorry I haven’t been checking this regularly, I got a few responses which satisfied me, but an email update rekindled my interest.

macro820 - 10 July 2008 03:54 AM

What’s the purpose of finding planets out side our solar system that may have life? Wouldn’t the nearest planet take 10s of thousands of years to go to?

I’m sure occam or doug will have arguments which will make mine obsolete due to the fact that they have analyzed every aspect of your question…but here’s my take on it:
I believe that if someone can prove aliens exist (which I have been proven, that I can’t prove it :D) it will inspire many people and nations to come together to develop a long term research project for space travel. The Large Hadron Collider is an example of international cooperation when science is to be had.
Another reason is simply; why not? Why not research what a proton is or even smaller than that? It’s a better way for countries to spend their money together, than for it to fund wars against each other. I believe that wars will exist even when there is no real conflict because it is good for a nation, however cynical that sounds. (It has to be a good war, unlike the guerrilla warfare where it creates disunity instead of the converse)

Although, I am uneasy about the discovery of alien life whether it be intelligent or not. The societies of Earth would be rocked to its core. Religions will be altered, created, destroyed. Heck, even another holy war might break out. Now, I am by no means an atheist, because I accept that science can answer how when religion answers why, but there are the extremists (believe me I’m Catholic) that won’t believe a word you say unless its in the bible.

Gawd I hate politics.

Here’s another question for you:
Why are we only analyzing planets with possible Earthly conditions as candidates when they whole theory of Evolution implies that life develops based on the planet, not the other way around.  There is even speculation that there may be life on one of Jupiter’s ball of water with an ice crust they call a moon. Also think of intelligence as an evolutionary trait if life evolves beyond bacteria on a planet.

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Posted: 10 July 2008 02:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Why are we only analyzing planets with possible Earthly conditions as candidates when they whole theory of Evolution implies that life develops based on the planet, not the other way around.

  The chemistry required for life has to be quite complex and undergo a huge number of reactions.  If a planet is too cold, the general reaction rate is severely slowed, so the likelihood of life forming becomes essentially zero.  Similarly, if it’s too hot, many of the complex molecules would break too quickly, so also probability essentially zero. 

Occam

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Posted: 10 July 2008 04:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Occam - 10 July 2008 02:44 PM

Why are we only analyzing planets with possible Earthly conditions as candidates when they whole theory of Evolution implies that life develops based on the planet, not the other way around.

  The chemistry required for life has to be quite complex and undergo a huge number of reactions.  If a planet is too cold, the general reaction rate is severely slowed, so the likelihood of life forming becomes essentially zero.  Similarly, if it’s too hot, many of the complex molecules would break too quickly, so also probability essentially zero. 

Occam

Occam,

Your statement sparks my curiosity about the forms of life that live in boiling hot temperatures by volcanic vents in the ocean floor, and don’t require sunlight to exist. Are they at the very upper end of this temperature range, or could it be pushed further?

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Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it’s a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.    - Lex Luthor

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Posted: 10 July 2008 04:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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I don’t think Occam was saying that it is impossible for life to form on these planets but the chance is so little and not only that but the I believe the theory is that life of our with our “advancement” could only come from a planet like Earth, and more important is a steady temp and liquid water. Also just because a planet is hot doesn’t mean that it has the minerals like those that come out of the volcanic vents. My real point is that we can’t even take care of our own planet, just seems like that money could be better spent. Especially on developing something to go there quicker and or clean energy.

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Posted: 10 July 2008 04:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Oh, I wasn’t being critical of the statement or it’s relation to space travel or intelligent life. I was honestly just curious about the effects of high heat on the ability of life to form, and wondered if Occam would know since he mentioned extreme temperatures. I guess I was going a bit off topic!

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Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it’s a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.    - Lex Luthor

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Posted: 10 July 2008 09:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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I wasn’t really talking about temperatures below, say, 150 C.  For example, Venus is somewhere in the range of 500-800 F., I believe, so it’s extremely doubtful that organic type molecules could be stable there.

Occam

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Posted: 11 July 2008 08:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Aliens do exist, even if they do not exist anywhere else, we still do. It is at the minimum, us. We are aliens.

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Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

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Posted: 11 July 2008 09:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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dougsmith - 21 June 2008 06:24 AM

Ha! Very good attempt for a 16 year old, dorge. One problem, however, is that space is not infinitely large; it is finite. If it were infinitely large, then no matter the smallness of the probability, the overall probability would be 1, i.e., 100%. But since space is not infinite, the actual number of the first probability is crucial.

Why do you think space is not infinite?

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Posted: 11 July 2008 09:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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morgantj - 11 July 2008 08:08 AM

Aliens do exist, even if they do not exist anywhere else, we still do. It is at the minimum, us. We are aliens.

As a first estimate, the chance that G W Bush, POTUS, is an alien from another planet I estimate as one in 100 billion billion (1 in 10E+20). I note that there is evidence that he is from another planet.

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Posted: 11 July 2008 09:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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A Voice of Sanity - 11 July 2008 09:44 AM
morgantj - 11 July 2008 08:08 AM

Aliens do exist, even if they do not exist anywhere else, we still do. It is at the minimum, us. We are aliens.

As a first estimate, the chance that G W Bush, POTUS, is an alien from another planet I estimate as one in 100 billion billion (1 in 10E+20). I note that there is evidence that he is from another planet.

“Alien” is relative. If there were life on other planets, would we not be the aliens to them? And if there is not life on other planets, does that mean we are not aliens since there is no other life to relate to?

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Posted: 11 July 2008 09:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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A Voice of Sanity - 11 July 2008 09:44 AM
morgantj - 11 July 2008 08:08 AM

Aliens do exist, even if they do not exist anywhere else, we still do. It is at the minimum, us. We are aliens.

As a first estimate, the chance that G W Bush, POTUS, is an alien from another planet I estimate as one in 100 billion billion (1 in 10E+20). I note that there is evidence that he is from another planet.

morgantj - 11 July 2008 09:46 AM

“Alien” is relative. If there were life on other planets, would we not be the aliens to them? And if there is not life on other planets, does that mean we are not aliens since there is no other life to relate to?

My relatives aren’t alien. But why is there so much evidence that Dubya is not from here?

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Posted: 03 August 2008 06:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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A Voice of Sanity - 11 July 2008 09:37 AM
dougsmith - 21 June 2008 06:24 AM

Ha! Very good attempt for a 16 year old, dorge. One problem, however, is that space is not infinitely large; it is finite. If it were infinitely large, then no matter the smallness of the probability, the overall probability would be 1, i.e., 100%. But since space is not infinite, the actual number of the first probability is crucial.

Why do you think space is not infinite?

Isn’t it expanding out from the Big Bang?

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