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Posted: 27 July 2008 09:42 AM   [ Ignore ]
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Is there anyone on the forum that is affiliated with CFI Calgary Community?

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“Is there a God in heven, a devil in hell, or is the only light to be seen the one at the end of my cigarette?”

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Posted: 19 August 2008 08:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Yes, I am the Executive Director of CFI Canada.  You can reach me at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) if you would like to get a message to the CFI Calgary Community.

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Posted: 07 January 2009 03:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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It’s great to see CFI in Calgary. 

I live out of town, but I’m happy to finally have a good reason to be jealous of my city neighbours.  Unfortunately Didsbury’s not quite ready to have a CFI chapter of it’s own, so I doubt I’ll be able to participate in the positive things that will hopefully be happening through CFI. 


Cheers,
Pat

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Posted: 23 September 2009 02:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Hi. Another Calgarian here.

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Posted: 23 September 2009 04:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Not quite a Calgarian, but close enough.

I know atheists are around here, but it’s not the sort of thing you typically find out about a person, even if you work with them for years.  But it’s always nice to hear when someone is.

Enjoy the weather, it’s not going ot last.  Last chance for a sunburn ‘till next May.


Cheers,
Pat

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Posted: 19 March 2010 08:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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willkriski - 23 September 2009 02:24 PM

Hi. Another Calgarian here.

I haven’t been on here since your reply last year.  Apparently it’s a dead issue in this town- at least when it comes to being a social activity. 

Atheism is a good way to live, but a really bad idea to try to form a group around. 

 

Cheers,
Pat

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Posted: 23 May 2010 12:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Corax:

Atheism is a good way to live, but a really bad idea to try to form a group around.

Altruism recognises pure genius thought.
Can there be a better quote?

I like that.
It is succinct.

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Along the Vines in the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss…

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Posted: 24 May 2010 08:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Electric Ashalar - 23 May 2010 12:17 AM

Corax:

Atheism is a good way to live, but a really bad idea to try to form a group around.

Altruism recognises pure genius thought.
Can there be a better quote?

I like that.
It is succinct.

Thanks man. 

It’s too bad that there aren’t any replies from other Calgarians.  I know they’re out there- I guess they’re too busy living life to spend time on the internet.  If that’s the case, then I’m glad there are no replies.


Cheers,
Pat

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Posted: 27 May 2010 12:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Corax - 23 September 2009 04:21 PM

Not quite a Calgarian, but close enough.

I know atheists are around here, but it’s not the sort of thing you typically find out about a person, even if you work with them for years.  But it’s always nice to hear when someone is.

If there is no discernible difference between knowing and not knowing there’s no quale to it at all, let alone “nice”.  This is another example of how adopting “atheism” perverts one’s thinking.

-Jeff K.

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Posted: 27 May 2010 02:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Jeff K - 27 May 2010 12:44 PM
Corax - 23 September 2009 04:21 PM

Not quite a Calgarian, but close enough.

I know atheists are around here, but it’s not the sort of thing you typically find out about a person, even if you work with them for years.  But it’s always nice to hear when someone is.

If there is no discernible difference between knowing and not knowing there’s no quale to it at all, let alone “nice”.  This is another example of how adopting “atheism” perverts one’s thinking.

-Jeff K.

I’m not sure I get what you’re saying.  Atheism has perverted my thinking in such a way so as to make me happy to hear that another person is an atheist?  Seems like an odd way for a lack of belief in superstition to affect someone.  But if that’s what atheism does to a person, I guess I’ll have to live with it.

The fact that I like to hear that another person is an atheist is no different than a guy thinking he’s the only Mormon at a Catholic wedding and being pleasently suprised to hear that there’s another Mormon in the in-laws side of the family.  It’s human nature to feel happiness when learning someone has the same values and beliefs as you.  I believe I have a great set of values and beliefs, so when another person has them, I am glad.  I actually ‘feel’ happy to know that fact.

Maybe I’m the oddball here, but it just seems natural to me.


Cheers,
Pat

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Posted: 28 May 2010 06:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Corax - 27 May 2010 02:14 PM
Jeff K - 27 May 2010 12:44 PM
Corax - 23 September 2009 04:21 PM

Not quite a Calgarian, but close enough.

I know atheists are around here, but it’s not the sort of thing you typically find out about a person, even if you work with them for years.  But it’s always nice to hear when someone is.

If there is no discernible difference between knowing and not knowing there’s no quale to it at all, let alone “nice”.  This is another example of how adopting “atheism” perverts one’s thinking.

-Jeff K.

I’m not sure I get what you’re saying.  Atheism has perverted my thinking in such a way so as to make me happy to hear that another person is an atheist?  Seems like an odd way for a lack of belief in superstition to affect someone.  But if that’s what atheism does to a person, I guess I’ll have to live with it.

The fact that I like to hear that another person is an atheist is no different than a guy thinking he’s the only Mormon at a Catholic wedding and being pleasently suprised to hear that there’s another Mormon in the in-laws side of the family.  It’s human nature to feel happiness when learning someone has the same values and beliefs as you.  I believe I have a great set of values and beliefs, so when another person has them, I am glad.  I actually ‘feel’ happy to know that fact.

Maybe I’m the oddball here, but it just seems natural to me.


Cheers,
Pat

The point was that you noted it was “years”.  Is that years of “unhappiness”?  Is that years of being bothered by people not involved in the “New Atheism” religion?  You said it was neither, and in fact, I can easily see it was “nothing”.  That atheism gives you an emotional high with no input at all for “years” clearly demonstrates you are enjoying a religious experience and deriving it from “years” of no input whatsoever.  It is not “odd”; you, like many, but not all atheists, treat it purely as a religion with the concomitant disregard of rationality that goes with being attached to such an ideal.

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Posted: 28 May 2010 10:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Jeff K - 28 May 2010 06:39 AM
Corax - 27 May 2010 02:14 PM
Jeff K - 27 May 2010 12:44 PM
Corax - 23 September 2009 04:21 PM

Not quite a Calgarian, but close enough.

I know atheists are around here, but it’s not the sort of thing you typically find out about a person, even if you work with them for years.  But it’s always nice to hear when someone is.

If there is no discernible difference between knowing and not knowing there’s no quale to it at all, let alone “nice”.  This is another example of how adopting “atheism” perverts one’s thinking.

-Jeff K.

I’m not sure I get what you’re saying.  Atheism has perverted my thinking in such a way so as to make me happy to hear that another person is an atheist?  Seems like an odd way for a lack of belief in superstition to affect someone.  But if that’s what atheism does to a person, I guess I’ll have to live with it.

The fact that I like to hear that another person is an atheist is no different than a guy thinking he’s the only Mormon at a Catholic wedding and being pleasently suprised to hear that there’s another Mormon in the in-laws side of the family.  It’s human nature to feel happiness when learning someone has the same values and beliefs as you.  I believe I have a great set of values and beliefs, so when another person has them, I am glad.  I actually ‘feel’ happy to know that fact.

Maybe I’m the oddball here, but it just seems natural to me.


Cheers,
Pat

The point was that you noted it was “years”.  Is that years of “unhappiness”?  Is that years of being bothered by people not involved in the “New Atheism” religion?  You said it was neither, and in fact, I can easily see it was “nothing”.  That atheism gives you an emotional high with no input at all for “years” clearly demonstrates you are enjoying a religious experience and deriving it from “years” of no input whatsoever.  It is not “odd”; you, like many, but not all atheists, treat it purely as a religion with the concomitant disregard of rationality that goes with being attached to such an ideal.

Ha.  No, I wasn’t unhappy for years.  I doubt you really thought that’s what I was saying.  My writing isn’t so bad that you don’t get my point (I hope).  Next time I indicate I am happy or glad or some other positive emotion, I’ll be sure to write “happier” or “gladder” or whatever, so as not to confuse the reader into thinking I was perpetually unhappy or sad for the previous portion of my life.

Atheism is not believing in the supernatural.  It doesn’t give me or anyone else a high to not believe in something.  If ‘not believing’ in something gave people a high, then we’d all have perma-grins not believing in everything that doesn’t exist.  I am ambivalent towards others beliefs so long as they don’t interfere to an annoying degree with me or others.  You want to believe in a particular god and follow a particular set of rules, that’s cool with me.  If you want to have a parade and throw a party, fine, as long as I don’t pay for it through taxes and it doesn’t go all night and keep me awake.  My happiness depends on no one other than myself unless another steps on me. 

So not knowing a coworker’s beliefs is not a source of grief, but knowing that they have the same beliefs as me is a source of happiness. 

And about my “concomitant disregard of rationality that goes with being attached to” atheism- I think you’re confusing my lack of faith with a lack of rationality.  Actually, to think rationally one would have to eliminate faith and deal in reality only.  Even a diehard theist has to admit that they leave purely rational thought behind to continue their faith (unless they’re ignorant of science and the facts, then they can honestly claim knowledge that is unfortunately false- a situation that I don’t think applies to you judging by your use of language.) 

Remember, atheism is NOT believing in the supernatural.  That’s it.  It’s nothing else.  If I rail against religion, it’s only against the horroble things that are associated with it, not my fellow humans, neighbours, friends and relatives, most of whom are quite religious/spiritual.


Cheers,
Pat

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Posted: 28 May 2010 11:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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And about my “concomitant disregard of rationality that goes with being attached to” atheism- I think you’re confusing my lack of faith with a lack of rationality.  Actually, to think rationally one would have to eliminate faith and deal in reality only.  Even a diehard theist has to admit that they leave purely rational thought behind to continue their faith (unless they’re ignorant of science and the facts, then they can honestly claim knowledge that is unfortunately false- a situation that I don’t think applies to you judging by your use of language.) 

Remember, atheism is NOT believing in the supernatural.  That’s it.  It’s nothing else.  If I rail against religion, it’s only against the horroble things that are associated with it, not my fellow humans, neighbours, friends and relatives, most of whom are quite religious/spiritual.


Cheers,
Pat

Not to belabor the point, but someone who exclusively employs faith and disregards reason in religious discussions is called a “fideist”, coined in the 1880s.  I would say that the days of the servile followers of 19th century preachers are long behind us.  So too are the days of bothering coworkers about philosophical matters.  Outside of Canada it is different.

Now as for the supernatural; it’s just a word.  The reason I say this is that as an engineer, I fully subscribe to naturalism, however while still wearing my engineer’s hat, I can tell you that my wife and my children think the that sort of things I create are very magical in quality.  Similarly, the complexities of the universe and the quantum realm make it perfectly reasonable to confuse their functioning with the supernatural.
Truly, my work involves such complexity that even my coworkers do not understand my methods and abilities, naturalistic though they may be.  Sadly, the philosophical nature of my craft is so beyond my coworkers, I may as well be a magician.  If I had to pick one thing, it is “aliasing” in computer science which throws them.  Indeed the shifting meanings of words, as for example “complex naturalism” and “supernatural” is beyond their comprehension.

These concepts are well within the bounds of western philosophical traditions.  I do not feel said or happy that either the atheists or religious among them do not understand the computer systems I work with.  I am blandly satisfied that it pays the bills and my position is beyond secure and that this derives from rejecting flawed logical systems of thought, alone as I may be in my philosophical education among my peers and coworkers.

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Posted: 30 May 2010 07:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Hello Pat, from Red Deer!

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I’m not sayin’....
I’m just sayin’....

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Posted: 31 May 2010 07:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Shawn - 30 May 2010 07:10 PM

Hello Pat, from Red Deer!

Hey Shawn,

I lived in Red Deer back in the early 90’s while I went to RDC.  I was even there last Friday to get the hitch on my truck worked on.  I still have some friends living there. 

RDC was so fun.  I’m really going to encourage my kids to go there when they graduate (they’re in grades 1 and 4, so it’s not an issue yet.)

I have lived by the hospital (next to Gaetz Ave.), in Sunnybrook, Lower Fairview, Upper Fairview, and most recently (7 years ago) in the new Oreal Park. 


Cheers,
Pat

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Posted: 31 May 2010 11:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Not to belabor the point, but someone who exclusively employs faith and disregards reason in religious discussions is called a “fideist”, coined in the 1880s.  I would say that the days of the servile followers of 19th century preachers are long behind us.  So too are the days of bothering coworkers about philosophical matters.  Outside of Canada it is different.

Now as for the supernatural; it’s just a word.  The reason I say this is that as an engineer, I fully subscribe to naturalism, however while still wearing my engineer’s hat, I can tell you that my wife and my children think the that sort of things I create are very magical in quality.  Similarly, the complexities of the universe and the quantum realm make it perfectly reasonable to confuse their functioning with the supernatural.
Truly, my work involves such complexity that even my coworkers do not understand my methods and abilities, naturalistic though they may be.  Sadly, the philosophical nature of my craft is so beyond my coworkers, I may as well be a magician.  If I had to pick one thing, it is “aliasing” in computer science which throws them.  Indeed the shifting meanings of words, as for example “complex naturalism” and “supernatural” is beyond their comprehension.

These concepts are well within the bounds of western philosophical traditions.  I do not feel said or happy that either the atheists or religious among them do not understand the computer systems I work with.  I am blandly satisfied that it pays the bills and my position is beyond secure and that this derives from rejecting flawed logical systems of thought, alone as I may be in my philosophical education among my peers and coworkers.

Yikes!  Do I come across as a fidelist?  Who’d have thought that an atheist could be a fidelist?  And I never bother coworkers about philosophical matters- I have no reservations about talking to them about these things if they bring it up, but I don’t start the ball rolling.

‘‘Now as for the supernatural; it’s just a word.’’  That’s true.  But it’s a word that means something to you and me.  I may use different words when writing the definition, but the general meaning would likely be close enough for us to use it here without confusion. 

Your ability to do things that most others can’t comprehend doesn’t mean that they think you use magic.  Do your family members really think you use magic or do they know you are simply using your knowledge in ways they don’t understand?  No atheist knows everything, but they all know that the things they don’t know aren’t magical.  And your coworkers, both atheist and theist, all know you deal in reality with no supernatural help.  So the idea that a technology sufficiently advanced appears as magic to the unknowing party isn’t a good analogy here.  It only works when we talk about a group that has never seen anything that wasn’t around in the stone age.  Nowadays, with the technology out there, only a willfully ignorant person will see magic.

I am sorry that you are unable to talk to anyone about anything you do.  If I could become smarter and chat as an equal I would. 

What I don’t understand is your lack of emotion about other people.  Your personality seems pretty detached, but that’s just a difference in degrees of emotional reaction, not a flaw.  My personality is such that I react differently than you.  So when you don’t understand why I feel something where you wouldn’t, it’s not that I am irrational, it’s just a personal reaction different than what yours would be.  I am guessing that I am not the only person to react differently than you, so your puzzled reaction is a bit odd. 

‘‘Indeed the shifting meanings of words, as for example “complex naturalism” and “supernatural” is beyond their comprehension.’’  Give people some credit.  Define those terms for me and I will tell you if I understand how they have shifted meanings.  Unless you’re shifting the meanings on your own without us knowing, the popular definition should be well known to anyone you work with (although I don’t know where you work, I have a feeling that some secondary education is required).  I wholeheartedly agree with your demand for common definitions to words and ideas in any discussion, but I don’t know that we are that far apart on most things. 

Have a great day,
Pat

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