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Posted: 08 September 2008 09:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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At the bottom under “murderers” it says: total 100%. I assume this means that the race categories describe what percentage of the total were committed by each race. So yes, blacks are much more likely to murder, as the population of blacks in America is much lower than the population of the whites.

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Posted: 08 September 2008 09:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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On a second thought I might be wrong. The statistics don’t show any numbers indicating the percentage of murders committed by asians or latinos. So I don’t know.

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Posted: 08 September 2008 09:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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You’ve both made interesting points and asked interesting questions.  I believe this shows why polling or statistical data must be taken with very large grains of salt.  They seldom contain all the conditions of the information gathering, the methods of calculation, and the assumptions.  This allows those with a bias to spin the data in their direction - on either or both sides.

Occam

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Posted: 08 September 2008 10:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Doppelganger - 08 September 2008 05:01 AM

Here’s a crazy thought—irregardless of how she became the monster that she is, she committed a horrible atrocity and should have to answer for her crimes.  Blame racism, blame the rich (that seems popular these days), blame everyone you can think of…  but here’s a crazy idea—blame HER—she’s the one who did it!  Think this to death if you must, but the fact remains, she is a monster and should no longer be allowed to live and propagate her inferior genetics to future generations.  And no, I’m not religious—I just think people should be responsible for their actions.  FLAME ON!!!

I agree with you to an extent. Our society has become far to comfortable shifting blame away from the individual who commited an act, to place it on institutions, organizations and others. It is all an obvious attempt by many to avoid taking responsibility for their actions. Its human nature to want to balme someone else, and now lately society has taken to rewarding this impulse with reduced prison terms and liability awards ( Hey I’m not an idiot for driving with that hot coffee on my lap, McDonalds was wrong for giving me hot coffee).

This woman needs to be punished and if possible given counseling, but the death penalty really serves no purpose except to make the public feel better about getting a pound of flesh from this pathetic woman for her heinous act. Giving her the death penalty for this crime will do nothing to prevent similar crimes in the future since these are crimes of passion and impulse. Individuals who do this don’t sit down and weigh the consequences.

Give this woman a life sentence or 30 years so she is not out in public giving life ( and death) to more babies, but I don’t see any benefit in giving her the death sentence.

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Posted: 08 September 2008 10:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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I also wonder how many around her, knew this woman was in distress and chose to do nothing. That is, after all, the American Way.

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Posted: 08 September 2008 11:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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“Arnold, her four children and her then-boyfriend Terrell Talley lived in a flat at the Parkside Homes housing complex, which has since been condemned.”

It’s amazing how this person can afford 4 children…  My wife and I are both doctors, and we have a difficult time paying for our 2 kids!!!  A 30 year sentence would give her another 20 years of conjugal visits at the people’s expense and a chance to have more chidren (also at the people’s expense, to be sure…) that are unfortunately and by no fault of their own, cursed to grow up w/ such pathetic role models as to perpetuate the cycle of poverty, abuse, and murder.  Where’s the dad?  I’m sure he was only around long enough to make the child.  How about mandatory sterilization (for the mother and the so-called father)?  It is the very least that this monster deserves.  I hate to hear myself type such things, but this person makes me sick to my stomach.

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Posted: 08 September 2008 11:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Doppelganger - 08 September 2008 11:07 AM

“Arnold, her four children and her then-boyfriend Terrell Talley lived in a flat at the Parkside Homes housing complex, which has since been condemned.”
It’s amazing how this person can afford 4 children…  My wife and I are both doctors, and we have a difficult time paying for our 2 kids!!!

It’s not that they can afford the children, it is the apathetic existence, lack of education, lack of prospects, drug and alcohol and drug abuse that produced those children.
Have you driven through a ghetto lately? Have you seen the schools and overwhelmed teachers? Have you seen the lack of resources comparable to any third world country?
As well as ‘our’ apathetic response to the existence of these situations, until something like this happens. As a DOCTOR, what would you have done? Sterilize the lot of them? That was declared unconstitutional in the 1960s. Putting everyone in jail just creates a bigger problem—-they eventually get out. As the graph shows, the people most endangered by violent African Americans, are other African Americans. What happened to trying to increase economic and educational opportunity? What happened to intervention of families like this—obviously in distress?

When Gray Davis was governor of CA, the San Francisco school district took the state to court on the conditions of their schools. The schools were overrun with rats, blazing hot in the summer, and so cold in the winter, that children had to wear coats in the classrooms. The bathrooms did not work and the school books as well as being outdated, were of insuffiecient number to give each child a book. Many of the teachers (who I appreciate as grossly underpaid for what they are expected to do) were underqualified to do their jobs.

What would YOU do to fix this situation? I understand that throwing money at problems are not the entire solution. I was lucky in that I could afford to send my children to private schools and avoid this.

(Sorry, but posts like the above, always gets me up onto my soap box) I don’t think they should get off scot free, but you have to consider how things got to be so bad in the first place. A ‘cancer’ is easier to cure, when you get regular check ups and find it while it is still localized. The same goes for these aberrant, abhorrent behaviors.

[ Edited: 08 September 2008 12:55 PM by asanta ]
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Posted: 08 September 2008 12:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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mckenzievmd - 02 September 2008 05:39 PM

I know what Stephan takes away from this as a “lesson,” to the extent it is anything other than a meaningnless tragedy, and I know we aren’t going to agree on that “lesson.”

Hi Brennen,

I really wasn’t thinking in terms of taking away lessons, I probably wasn’t thinking much at all, I was just very, very saddened and pathetically negative and depressed.

Stephen

[ Edited: 08 September 2008 12:15 PM by StephenLawrence ]
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Posted: 08 September 2008 12:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Doppelganger - 08 September 2008 05:01 AM

Here’s a crazy thought—irregardless of how she became the monster that she is, she committed a horrible atrocity and should have to answer for her crimes.

She will

  but here’s a crazy idea—blame HER—she’s the one who did it!

So what? I just thank my lucky stars I don’t have to wake up with that past every morning.

Think this to death if you must, but the fact remains, she is a monster and should no longer be allowed to live and propagate her inferior genetics to future generations.  And no, I’m not religious—I just think people should be responsible for their actions.  FLAME ON!!!

We can’t blame anyone for being what they are can we? We just happen to be what we are and some are much less lucky than others.

Stephen

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Posted: 08 September 2008 12:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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asanta - 08 September 2008 11:53 AM
Doppelganger - 08 September 2008 11:07 AM

“Arnold, her four children and her then-boyfriend Terrell Talley lived in a flat at the Parkside Homes housing complex, which has since been condemned.”
It’s amazing how this person can afford 4 children…  My wife and I are both doctors, and we have a difficult time paying for our 2 kids!!!

It’s not that they can afford the children, it is the apathetic existence, lack of education, lack of prospects, drug and alcohol and drug abuse that produced those children.
Have you driven through a ghetto lately? Have you seen the schools and overwhelmed teachers? Have you seen the lack of resources comparable to any third world country?
As well as ‘our’ apathetic response to the existence of these situations, until something like this happens. As a DOCTOR, what would you have done? Sterilize the lot of them? That was declared unconstitutional in the 1960s. Putting everyone in jail just creates a bigger problem—-they eventually get out. As the graph shows, the people most endangered by violent African Americans, are other African Americans. What happened to trying to increase economic and educational opportunity? What happened to intervention of families like this—obviously in distress?

When Gray Davis was governor of CA, the San Francisco school district took the state to court on the conditions of their schools. The schools were overrun with rats, blazing hot in the summer, and so cold in the winter, that children had to wear coats in the classrooms. The bathrooms did not work and the school books as well as being outdated, were of insuffiecient number to give each child a book. Many of the teachers (who I appreciate as grossly underpaid for what they are expected to do) were underqualified to do their jobs.

What would YOU do to fix this situation? I understand that throwing money at problems are not the entire solution. I was lucky in that I could afford to send my children to private schools and avoid this.

(Sorry, but posts like the above, always gets me up onto my soap box)

Yes, it’s a complicated problem, to say the least.  I can certainly tell you what does NOT work easier than I could profit a solution.  Here’s a couple.  Throwing money at the problem is NOT the solution.  Look at Washington, DC public schools and you can see that this is most certainly NOT the solution.  They have a tremendous amount of money per student, but perform near the bottom of the country.  You mentioned that you were able to send your children to private school, and I commend you for the value that you placed on your childrens education.  When other people in the black community finally understand how important school is, they too will raise themselves out of the self-imposed poverty that they more often than not experience.  The education that you have given your children will most likely pay dividends in the long run.  But it is not the private school in and of itself that is important here.  It is the fact that education was important to you, and your children knew through you how important an education is.  You probably spent countless hours with your children supplementing the education that they got at school.  I, too, pay a bundle of money to send my children to private school.  Why?  One very important reason is to surround them with other children from families that care enough about education to make the sacrifices that need to be made to send their children to a private school.  This sounds terrible, and in a way it is very selfish, but I don’t want my kids to hang around other kids whose mommy is a drug addict or whose daddy is in jail, if they are lucky enough to know who their daddy is.  How is a kid supposed to succeed in life when he is surrounded by this kind of crap?  I don’t know what the solution is for those children, and I truly feel sorry for the fact that they were born to such losers, but I’m not taking chances w/ my children.  Take any child, and if you surround him w/ people that love to learn and focus on school instead of pop culture, rap music, and other such nonsense, then they have a much better chance of growing up to be a happy, successful, self-supporting, and independent member of this society.  Take that same child and surround him w/ kids w/ parents in jail, drugs at home, a revolving door of boyfriends, abuse and neglect, and he will turn out like the monster that cooked her child.  When the black community places a greater emphasis on how high a child can jump, if he can dunk a basketball, and if he can look cool while he’s dancing instead of focusing on meaningful attributes that will enhance a child’s future life and earn him a place of respect in this community, then your are bound to have these sorts of problems.  Ask a black child who his role model is, and you will get plenty of responses like rap stars, sports stars, and the like.  Great!  If the average person had a snowballs chance in hell of attaining that level of success, then maybe this would be a good strategy.  Ask a Chinese student who his role model is, and he will likely tell you someone like Bill Gates, or someone who has actually contributed something to this world and is worth emulating.  You know—it’s funny.  I was watching the Cosby Show the other day—I grew up watching that show—and I thought to myself that I RARELY see black families like that.  That’s unfortunate, b/c to me, that is the picture of what a family should be like.  But when you belong to a community that laughs at you for “being too white” when you do good in school, then how are you ever to make anything of yourself?  Hmmm…  I got too far off on a tangent to offer any good solutions.  I’ll think on it, and perhaps offer more later.

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Posted: 08 September 2008 01:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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First (Doppelganger) I have to cool off to answer your charges. MORE AFRICAN AMERICANS ARE MIDDLE CLASS THAN IMPOVERISHED. How DARE you say African Americans don’t believe in education! Every African American I know wants their child to have a better life. The stories YOU watch on the 6 o’clock news LOVES to focus primarily on the small portion of the community that commits crimes and are a cause for ninety per cent of the problems. African American students are attending colleges is greater numbers in spite of the challenges of the inner city school systems. Although far too many are being lost. I am a Registered Nurse at a prestigious university hospital, one son had his MBA by 25, and the other is working on his. Please don’t insult me by painting African Americans with the same broad brush, I would not dream of doing the same to anyone else.

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Posted: 08 September 2008 04:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Quote Doppelganger:

I was watching the Cosby Show the other day—I grew up watching that show—and I thought to myself that I RARELY see black families like that.

  I have to ask, D., how many homes of African-American families have you spent any amount of time in? 

Years ago I found myself working closely with an African-American chemist.  As I got to know him, my respect for his scientific knowledge, then his humanity, ethics, and warmth grew.  He became my closest friend.  His kids were delightful.  After he died I lost track of them, but I do know that the youngest boy graduated from Harvard and is a lawyer with a prestigious civil rights law firm. 

As a doctor (as we chemists like to describe as pseudo-scientists) you should know that one has to be very leery of drawing inferences from small samples.

Occam

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Posted: 09 September 2008 04:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Occam - 08 September 2008 04:56 PM

Quote Doppelganger:

I was watching the Cosby Show the other day—I grew up watching that show—and I thought to myself that I RARELY see black families like that.

  I have to ask, D., how many homes of African-American families have you spent any amount of time in? 

Years ago I found myself working closely with an African-American chemist.  As I got to know him, my respect for his scientific knowledge, then his humanity, ethics, and warmth grew.  He became my closest friend.  His kids were delightful.  After he died I lost track of them, but I do know that the youngest boy graduated from Harvard and is a lawyer with a prestigious civil rights law firm. 

As a doctor (as we chemists like to describe as pseudo-scientists) you should know that one has to be very leery of drawing inferences from small samples.

Occam

One of my better friends is a black gentleman from Jamaica.  He feels very similar to the way I feel.  I went to school for 4 years at an overwhelmingly black university and spent a LARGE part of my time w/ blacks then.  I’m tired of people putting their heads in the sand instead of telling it like it is.  Pretending race problems do not exist perpetuate the problem.

BTW, here’s another generalization—there were 2 distinct categories of blacks at the university I previously mentioned—blacks that were born in the USA and blacks that came from outside of the USA.  I looked up to MANY of the blacks that came from outside the USA and they were by and large very nice, honest, intelligent, and hard working people.  But the ones that were born here in the USA…  Well, I didn’t look up to them much at all.  Of course, I’m speaking generally, and there are many noteworthy exceptions.

I know my views are offensive to some, and I apologize for that.  It is not my desire to personally attack anyone and I wish no one any ill will.  But there are deep seated problems that need to be resolved here.  It is not in my nature to try to be politically correct—indeed, I’m doing the opposite to provoke a little dialogue.

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Posted: 09 September 2008 04:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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asanta - 08 September 2008 01:18 PM

First (Doppelganger) I have to cool off to answer your charges. MORE AFRICAN AMERICANS ARE MIDDLE CLASS THAN IMPOVERISHED. How DARE you say African Americans don’t believe in education! Every African American I know wants their child to have a better life. The stories YOU watch on the 6 o’clock news LOVES to focus primarily on the small portion of the community that commits crimes and are a cause for ninety per cent of the problems. African American students are attending colleges is greater numbers in spite of the challenges of the inner city school systems. Although far too many are being lost. I am a Registered Nurse at a prestigious university hospital, one son had his MBA by 25, and the other is working on his. Please don’t insult me by painting African Americans with the same broad brush, I would not dream of doing the same to anyone else.

I commend you on your accomplishments and those of your kids.  It would seem that you do not belong to the category of which I was speaking.  Nonetheless, I wish you well and am sorry to have angered you, but I stand by my comments.

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Posted: 09 September 2008 05:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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StephenLawrence - 08 September 2008 12:23 PM

We can’t blame anyone for being what they are can we? We just happen to be what we are and some are much less lucky than others.

Stephen

I don’t buy into that theory.  Certainly, genetics plays into everything that we are and everything that we could be.  And environment plays a similarly important role.  But we can’t just float along like a piece of flotsum in the surf, being pushed one way or another, thinking that we are not in control of what we are and where we journey in life.  People can CHOOSE to do good or they can CHOOSE to do bad.  She made her choice and an innocent infant died b/c of her bad CHOICE.

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