This school board is not even trying to call it intelligent design. They call it creationism outright. (At least they’re honest.) Here is their logic “The law says we can’t have Bibles in schools, but we can have evolution, of the atheists.” So they think textbooks containing evolution are “atheist bibles” and therefore Christian bibles should be allowed as well.
The ONLY PERSON at the town meeting that spoke out “mildly against” the idea was the board Chairwoman: “...school board Chairwoman Shirley Babson took the podium and said another state had tried to teach evolution and creationism together and failed, and that the school system must teach by the law. “Evolution is taught because that’s what the General Assembly tells us to teach,” Babson said, adding that she doesn’t agree with it, but that students must learn it to graduate.”
And the board’s attorney, the one who should have some legal sense? He thinks it will be OK! “Board attorney Joseph Causey said it might be possible for the board to add creationism to the curriculum if it doesn’t replace the teaching of evolution.”
What is wrong with these people? Taxpayers cannot support teaching Christianity in public schools! How would these people like it if a cleric showed up to teach Islam to their students? What about scientologists? What if the Moonies showed up, to teach them that their reverend was the REAL Jesus Christ? Would they still be happy?
Oh, this gets me so angry. We can’t be mixing religion and government. Don’t these people know history? Can’t they see how dangerous it is to mix relgion and government? Christian education can take place in the home, at church, at Sunday school, in an after school club, many places… but not public school, and especially not on the taxpayer’s dime!
Where does “the law” say you “can’t have Bibles in schools”? This is just bald-faced lying. The only thing “the law” says is that one can’t proselytize or hold religious events or ceremonies in schools.
Yes, the board members were mistaken on several key issues. From what I understand, they can have bible(s) in the school, as long as they are not presented in a way that appears to endorse or promote religion by the school or the teachers. For example, they can have a bible and other religious books in the library amongst other books. A teacher can keep a bible in their desk for personal reading, but can’t wave it around saying “This will save your soul, kiddies.”
And biblical literature can be taught as an elective, although interestingly enough - this same school district did that, with interesting results: “The Brunswick Board created a Bible-as-literature course for high school students a few years ago. This year, the elective class is not being taught because no one signed up for it.” (Source)
But this school board doesn’t just want the bible IN the school, sitting in the library. They want the bible taught to students as a direct counter argument to (or preferably in place of) evolution. “Board attorney Joseph Causey said it might be possible for the board to add creationism to the curriculum if it doesn’t replace the teaching of evolution.” I believe this tactic of “equal time” was tried in 1987 and shot down by the supreme court.
The statement by the lawyer is surprising, but at least he stated that the teaching of both evolution and creationism “might” be possible. I would think that once he does his research, he will have no option but to advise the board that what is being proposed would be shot down by a court if implemented. What the board will do then, however, is anyone’s guess.
I believe you are correct. I hope he looks into it a little more and realizes that these fights have already been tried, and lost, in high courts. Strange that he thinks it might be possible though, given recent cases. Perhaps he was just placating the board during the heated meeting, and will get back to them later with a memo saying that, after further research, he’s concluded it’s not in their best interest to pursue?
I noticed something interesting in the comments section of the main article. A parent pointed out that the district had “failing schools” desperately in need of help, and that this fight was a distraction. When considering how much Dover spent on legal fees trying to teach “intelligent design,” it is questionable that these schools would be prepared to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to fight this in court, when they need that money for things like books, computers, teacher salaries, tutoring programs, etc. Seems a shame to waste money on legal fights that are sure to follow.
The statement by the lawyer is surprising, but at least he stated that the teaching of both evolution and creationism “might” be possible. I would think that once he does his research, he will have no option but to advise the board that what is being proposed would be shot down by a court if implemented. What the board will do then, however, is anyone’s guess.
I can’t be so optimistic. In our son Matthew’s case, it was the Board of Education’s attorney who just plain didn’t get how far out of bounds a teacher’s remarks were. I’m floored that someone can get through law school and not get separation of church and state. Don’t kid yourself. Lawyers are as capable of self-delusion as anyone, especially on issues like this.
I wrote the Brunswick County Board of Education this morning after reading the article in the local paper through the link in post 1. I doubt that they’ll get back to me, but at least they have a little more to chew on.
PLaClair, thank you for writing the school board in question.
I vividly remember your son’s case in the news. I recall many people crying out for “the teacher’s right to free speech.” These people just DIDN’T GET IT. The teacher is free to speak his mind on his own time. He can get a soap box and stand on the sidewalk preaching. He can write a blog. He could have started a christian after-school club. He can shout it from mountaintops. He just can’t do it in the classroom in a public school.
Your son is a hero. And what a great father he has, standing by his side.
Let’s use reductio absurdum, that is, take it to its “logical extreme”. Would those same people have argued for “the teacher’s right to free speech” if, as in the following thread, the teacher lectured the kids on the values of pedophilia? I seriously doubt it. They were obviously really arguing for their creationist view, and only trying to mask it in the 1st Amendment.
This school board is not even trying to call it intelligent design. They call it creationism outright. (At least they’re honest.) Here is their logic “The law says we can’t have Bibles in schools, but we can have evolution, of the atheists.” So they think textbooks containing evolution are “atheist bibles” and therefore Christian bibles should be allowed as well.
Just mentioned it up on my SJS Campaign blog ... if anyone wants to comment they (or I) can put that up too.
I see this as a bunch of rather dim bulbs who got elected to their school board but don’t know much about the world. They are ignorant of the history of Supreme Court decisions that goes against what they want to do. Most of them have probably never been abroad except perhaps in the military, some may never have seen the far side of the state line. It’s a shame that their children are condemned to grow up amid such idiots, but hopefully they’ll move away and learn about the world.
I see this as a bunch of rather dim bulbs who got elected to their school board but don’t know much about the world. They are ignorant of the history of Supreme Court decisions that goes against what they want to do. Most of them have probably never been abroad except perhaps in the military, some may never have seen the far side of the state line. It’s a shame that their children are condemned to grow up amid such idiots, but hopefully they’ll move away and learn about the world.
And as much as most of these people are always screaming about immigrants (just an aside—I’m not for ILLEGAL immigration), at least the immigrants have experienced a minimum of 2 countries, and are adventurous enough to step out of their box. The number of Americans as a whole who even own a passport is an abysmal indictment of our curiosity about the world.
Well, PLaClair has already done more to fight creationism in schools than most of us will do in our lifetime.
I’ve been a member of AU.org for years now, supporting them financially in their fight to keep creationists out of public schools, and encouraging others to join - it’s a great organization!
And we can all vote for candidates that pledge to uphold church/state separation. Even writing letters to the editor when these issues rise in your area can help make a difference.
I also think people at CFI are helping to keep creationism out of public schools. So by supporting them financially we are also helping the cause.
All together, I think most of the people here are helping to make a change. At the very least, many of us are raising awareness as to the seriousness of the problem.
I have faith in the people at AU, at CFI, and in this forum. They will help to keep the science in science class.
Well, PLaClair has already done more to fight creationism in schools than most of us will do in our lifetime.
I’ve been a member of AU.org for years now, supporting them financially in their fight to keep creationists out of public schools, and encouraging others to join - it’s a great organization!
And we can all vote for candidates that pledge to uphold church/state separation. Even writing letters to the editor when these issues rise in your area can help make a difference.
I also think people at CFI are helping to keep creationism out of public schools. So by supporting them financially we are also helping the cause.
All together, I think most of the people here are helping to make a change. At the very least, many of us are raising awareness as to the seriousness of the problem.
I have faith in the people at AU, at CFI, and in this forum. They will help to keep the science in science class.
I figured that would raise some hackles.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not knocking AU.org (I’ve actually sent them a donation once), or CFI - and agree with you that they are doing good things. I do thank providence they are in place to deal with the legalities of confronting school districts and such. And it is probably as much as they can hope to do - I just worry that it simply isn’t enough.
I say this because we still constantly hear about another school board, or even state education boards (Texas for example) being filled with people who actually sincerely believe the world was created 6/6000, and that it is their mission to enforce that dogma upon all.
Maybe my truer lament would be that while many are busy pruning at the branches - too little is being done to the trunk and root system from which the branches sprout.
“The Discovery Institute has been gearing up to pollute classrooms across the country with a new ‘textbook’ called Explore Evolution, which is to replace their old propaganda of choice, Of Pandas and People (which had its sorry creationist origins exposed in a little trial in Dover, Pennsylvania).”
“The Discovery Institute has been gearing up to pollute classrooms across the country with a new ‘textbook’ called Explore Evolution, which is to replace their old propaganda of choice, Of Pandas and People (which had its sorry creationist origins exposed in a little trial in Dover, Pennsylvania).”
If at first you don’t succeed…....
(I’m referring to the forces of reason! ) I have a feeling this will be an ongoing battle far beyond our lifetimes. This is unfortunate when the 21st century used to represent (to the masses) such hope for scientific progress. WHAT HAPPENED?????
