originalucifer - 14 November 2008 08:49 AM

Occam - 13 November 2008 04:58 PM

The idea of something happening by not an accident implies motivation
Occam

It does? why?

Why can’t things just happen? I was kind of under the impression “Accident” implies motivation.

Perhaps it’s just happening but is there a reason to think that is most likely?

Stephen

StephenLawrence - 15 November 2008 01:48 AM

originalucifer - 14 November 2008 08:49 AM

Occam - 13 November 2008 04:58 PM

The idea of something happening by not an accident implies motivation
Occam

It does? why?

Why can’t things just happen? I was kind of under the impression “Accident” implies motivation.

Perhaps it’s just happening but is there a reason to think that is most likely?

Stephen

no evidence to the contrary, simplest explanation

originalucifer - 15 November 2008 07:12 AM

StephenLawrence - 15 November 2008 01:48 AM

originalucifer - 14 November 2008 08:49 AM

Occam - 13 November 2008 04:58 PM

The idea of something happening by not an accident implies motivation
Occam

It does? why?

Why can’t things just happen? I was kind of under the impression “Accident” implies motivation.

Perhaps it’s just happening but is there a reason to think that is most likely?

Stephen

no evidence to the contrary, simplest explanation

Yes that is reasonable, though I know what people mean when they say they believe in something but don’t know what it is, I feel similar.

The other thing is, as I’ve said before, I really think many atheists haven’t fully thought through their position, for instance, from Advocatus’s reply to me, I get the impression s/he thinks we have an ultimate explanation beyond “it’s just happening.” and If only I read a certain book, I could discover it.

Stephen

Bryan - 14 November 2008 11:38 PM

You should have gone for the joke right away.

I couldn’t. It wouldn’t have been funny if I did.

Like this:
Orange you glad I didn’t say banana? Not funny, right?

StephenLawrence - 15 November 2008 11:27 AM

...for instance, from Advocatus’s reply to me, I get the impression s/he thinks we have an ultimate explanation beyond “it’s just happening.” and If only I read a certain book, I could discover it.

No, I simply meant that just because something happens doesn’t mean there was some Being who consciously directed it to happen.  Pretty much as Doug described it.  Some things we can explain.  Other things still elude us.  That doesn’t mean there must be “something else” in the sense of an Intelligent Designer or something.

advocatus - 17 November 2008 08:23 AM

StephenLawrence - 15 November 2008 11:27 AM

...for instance, from Advocatus’s reply to me, I get the impression s/he thinks we have an ultimate explanation beyond “it’s just happening.” and If only I read a certain book, I could discover it.

No, I simply meant that just because something happens doesn’t mean there was some Being who consciously directed it to happen.  Pretty much as Doug described it.  Some things we can explain.  Other things still elude us.  That doesn’t mean there must be “something else” in the sense of an Intelligent Designer or something.

Well, it’s always easier to understand something if we can give examples. I remember reading the strangest book once that didn’t describe a growth in consciousness, but a growth in structures followed by a growth in consciousness. All part of a cycle. Maybe when we reach for a certain degree of understanding our brains and bodies react—or maybe the universe reacts—and sets about providing the answers for us.