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The Afterlife
Posted: 12 April 2006 07:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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If an afterlife is necessary to give life meaning, as some theists claim, then does existence in the afterlife, which incidentally lasts for an eternity, have NO meaning since nothing comes after that?

Exactly what will anything matter in an immortal life of guaranteed bliss? 

Are there any challenges in heaven?  Highs and lows?  Joy or heartbreak?

What is there to look forward to in heaven?  Is it just an eternal high like a drug might induce?

Theists do not get very far when explaining this…

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Posted: 18 April 2006 04:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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The Urantia Book does a pretty good job of explaining what the “afterlife” has in store for us.
The ascension plan to Paradise if one chooses to commit to it, requires learning and training which can take as much as several hundred if not thousands of celestial lifetimes.
Upon completion of the course and finally reaching Paradise to be with God one continues an everlasting service to the outer regions of space yet realized.
There is of course the alternative choice, not to participate in the ascension course and one becomes extinguished as though they never happened.
Is the ascension plan in the afterlife necessary to have peace and prosperty here on earth? Maybe not, but for those living under the veil of illusion there is hope.

Peace.

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Posted: 18 April 2006 04:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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[quote author=“CoyoteSon”]The Urantia Book does a pretty good job of explaining what the “afterlife” has in store for us.
The ascension plan to Paradise if one chooses to commit to it, requires learning and training which can take as much as several hundred if not thousands of celestial lifetimes.
Upon completion of the course and finally reaching Paradise to be with God one continues an everlasting service to the outer regions of space yet realized.
There is of course the alternative choice, not to participate in the ascension course and one becomes extinguished as though they never happened.
Is the ascension plan in the afterlife necessary to have peace and prosperty here on earth? Maybe not, but for those living under the veil of illusion there is hope.

Peace.

Um, CoyoteSon, is there any actual evidence for any of this stuff?

How would the writers of Urantia know about an “afterlife”, an “ascention plan”, reincarnation, Paradise or God? And anyhow I thought you’d already said that the writers of Urantia were atheists. So how is it that they believe in God?

How is this any different from stories about the Easter Bunny?

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Posted: 18 April 2006 08:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Atheist God requires no proof of existence.
Atheist God isn’t going to grant your prayers or condemn anyone.
The authors of The Urantia Book have been advised not to reveal their sourses so that they (the sourses) can remain undeified and unidentified. It isn’t revealed if the authors believe or don’t believe, they are only translating the narratives of a sleeping subject.
For all those contemplating an “afterlife” there is an ascension plan.
Afterlife is a matter of choice not belief.
Free will determines how we choose. One can still be happy and prosperous believing or not believing while still alive on earth.

Do you require proof of “free will”?

Peace.

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Posted: 18 April 2006 09:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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[quote author=“CoyoteSon”]The authors of The Urantia Book have been advised not to reveal their sourses so that they (the sourses) can remain undeified and unidentified.

Well that’s the precise problem with so many fundamentalist cults and religions, isn’t it?

That’s just the sort of thing that the Center for Inquiry exists to question and expose. The ideal of the Enlightenment is to allow free inquiry into all things, and not to support “unrevealed” “unidentified” or “unquestioned” sources for our beliefs. What you are supporting is obscurantism of the most debased sort.

And by doing so you have exposed the fact that there is absolutely no reason to believe anything in the Urantia book.

[quote author=“CoyoteSon”]Do you require proof of “free will”?

I am immediately aware of my freely willed actions just as I am aware of where I sit and what I do. To that extent my free will is about as far from religious obscurantism as it is possible to be.

You have my sympathy.

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Posted: 19 April 2006 04:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Thank you Doug,

I believe sympathy is reserved for those in mourning.
Did someone die?
I’m not advocating that anyone read or believe anything their conscious doesn’t permit. Does your freewill inspire or command?
Inquirying minds open the space for what it possible. The topic is “afterlife” and the ascension plan is a look at what maybe possible, The Urantia Book offers an enlightening possibility.
What do you offer as an enlightening possibility to the “afterlife”? and address your sources.

Peace.

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Posted: 19 April 2006 04:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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[quote author=“CoyoteSon”]Inquirying minds open the space for what it possible. The topic is “afterlife” and the ascension plan is a look at what maybe possible, The Urantia Book offers an enlightening possibility.
What do you offer as an enlightening possibility to the “afterlife”? and address your sources.

There are an infinity of possibilities, CoyoteSon, about every subject. It is possible that the moon is made of green cheese. It is possible that the Easter Bunny lives on mars.

It is true that any inquiry begins with some focus on the possibilities. But that focus is constrained by likelihood. That is, we constrain it to which possibilities are most likely given what we already know about the world.

And then, to be honest, we check each possibility against reason and experiment.

As for the “afterlife”, there is no evidence that we exist past death. Is it possible that we do? Yes. What would that afterlife be like if it were to exist? There is no way to know. We have no insight into any potential afterlife with any scientific methods, nor is it amenable to reason.

So, if we use experiment and reason (our only two roads to knowledge), they tell us that the afterlife is a fiction.

If experiment and reason have led us wrong in this case, and there is an afterlife, we know nothing about it. Neither, it seems, do the authors of the Urantia book. Hence they have simply written an overambitious fiction.

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Posted: 19 April 2006 05:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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It is possible that the moon is made of green cheese. It is possible that the Easter Bunny lives on mars.

Well I must admit this line of reasoning is quite enlightening.

Atheist God requires no proof of anyones existance.
Atheist God isn’t seeking anyone.
Atheist God is not here or inside of anyone.

Granted the Urantia Book maybe based on fiction. Spiritual reality can’t be seen or measured or for that matter neither can mind, soul or personality. If clear conscious and sound reason be your guide, then rest assured there exists an ascension plan. All one has to do (when the time comes) is choose.

If reality is that which can be measured, experimented and reasoned, then the human experience is without mind, soul, justice, mercy ministry and without these things where’s the wisdom?
Human experience without wisdom makes the 60 to 80 years of earth life meaningless.
Does the quote ” the one with the most toys wins” ring a bell?
Then Atheist God is tailored made for you.

Peace.

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Posted: 20 April 2006 01:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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[quote author=“CoyoteSon”]Spiritual reality can’t be seen or measured or for that matter neither can mind, soul or personality.

Actually, mind, soul and personality can be measured, in many ways. I suggest you look into the burgeoning developments in cognitive psychology and brain science. They might surprise you.

[quote author=“CoyoteSon”] If clear conscious and sound reason be your guide, then rest assured there exists an ascension plan. All one has to do (when the time comes) is choose.

“Sound reason” assures one of no such thing. (Or if it does, you have given us no “reason” to believe it). So your supposition about “ascention plans” and “choosing” is simply a baseless guess, contraverted by all the evidence we have and (not incidentally) by dozens of other equally baseless guesses by more established religions.

[quote author=“CoyoteSon”]If reality is that which can be measured, experimented and reasoned, then the human experience is without mind, soul, justice, mercy ministry and without these things where’s the wisdom?

Mind, soul, justice and mercy are all equally amenable to reason, measurement and experiment. For example, we can reason as to whether some particular action was justified. We can measure aspects of the mind, such as cognitive skills. We can experiment with ways of merciful giving to find out which ones make the most difference, and which ones are useless or detrimental.

What you are searching for isn’t wisdom, it is blind dogma, which is precisely wisdom’s opposite.

[quote author=“CoyoteSon”]Human experience without wisdom makes the 60 to 80 years of earth life meaningless.

Quite so, and in that case I’d suggest you focus on ways of getting wiser rather than more misled.

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Posted: 30 April 2006 01:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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[quote author=“CoyoteSon”]Howdy Dougsmith

Yes the very same.

The Urantia Book is something I read several times. The Urantia Book was written by Atheists in an attempt to bring forth epocal revelation. The Book in public domain status, copyrights denied 2001.

Have you read it?

CoyoteSon,
A late posting here.  Yes, I took a look at part of it.  I thing the one big thing that most religions have wrong is that they say “This is the way to the afterlife——-”  .  But since most of the billions and billions of people now and before now have never heard of that specific religion and its rules,  then those people can not make it to that religions afterlife.  Hmmm.  a God that forgets to tell everyone how the rules work.  ????

It just makes me a little suspectious.

Later,
Elder Norm

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ARO "www.aro-religion.org"  The belief in Reality and the organized seach for its measure.

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Posted: 01 May 2006 04:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Howdy Eldernorm

You’re right The Urantia Book doesn’t specify a religion to follow. The Book does state clear guidelines for an acceptable way of life. A life pattern which includes science, philosophy, arts, literature and faith. The Book clearly states that religion without progress, relevation and mercy ministry restricts imagination and inspiration. It would be perfectly acceptable to start one religion or debunk all religion to incorporate these ideals if one decides to do so.
Think of The Urantia Book as a guide for those seeking higher levels of meaning about life and themselves, and take borrow or modify from The Book anyway you see best for a better life.
Many are insistant on having rules for happiness . A happy life is one without illusion and filled with peace. A good example is the life Jesus Christ proclaimed. His rule is simply; Love your self , love your brother. What could be simpler than that?

Peace my brother.

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Posted: 04 July 2006 09:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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To answer the original post:

Yeah, it’s funny. Why go through all the trouble of testing people on Earth? It’s silly.

I think if people weren’t so selfish and thought to themselves: Hey! I dunno if there is an afterlife. I want to live forever… I want to be remembered! I could spend my time helping people: building houses, working in soup kitchens, spending time training others at local rec centers in my profession, so maybe, when they tell their children about me, the spirit of what I did, if not my name, will inspire even more humanitarism!”

I guess some people would just rather play at sincereity and charity so god picks them out of the rubble of the cafe or the wrecked SUV an plops them into his Holy Lap of Awesome.

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Our love of what is beautiful does not lead to extravagance; our love of things of the mind does not make us soft.—Thucydides, Book II

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Posted: 10 July 2006 02:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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I don’t know people of faith who actually live as if the afterlife is going to matter.  I think it’s more of a given, based on the idea of ultimate authority, which is a concept we seem to gravitate toward as a species.

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What’s the point?

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Posted: 11 July 2006 03:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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I don’t know people of faith who actually live as if the afterlife is going to matter.

...Really?  So hundreds of millions of people sit around in church on Sunday just for the fun of it?  I know an awful lot of people that are scared to death of the prospect of Hell, and who talk about Heaven all the time (in regard to deceased relatives, etc.)  Without the prospect of eternal reward or punishment, I doubt organized religions would have many recruits at all.

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Posted: 11 July 2006 04:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Thakkus -

“I don’t know of those who live as if the afterlife is going to matter.”

With respect let me refer you to the dominionists, the reconstructionists, and the most popular series of books ever written - The Left Behind Series by Tim LaHaye and Jerry B Jenkins.
Our President, a fellow named George W Bush believe he was sent by god to manage the war in the near east and if he isn’t managing this country with a view to the second coming and an afterlife how can what he is doing be explained in some other rational way?

There are many who live, waiting for the second coming. They are many who believe it is due to happen within their lifetimes. The statistics are shocking, over 20 million Christians believe the second coming is around the corner.

There is more to be discovered about these folks but just Google the two words i referred to in the second paragraph for a start.
Jim

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Jimmie Keyes
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http://secularhumanism.meetup.com/1/
Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. (MLK Jr.)

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