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What is Humanism
Posted: 31 May 2006 04:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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This land is who’s land….

Yes Doug, land should not belong to any ethnic group.  And yes, Jews live in Isreal NOW (and still move into “settlements” which are not theirs to move into), but the Jews can lay very little claim historically to Isreal as their home (outside of the Bible)... and this land has been Muslim/Arab for far, far longer than it ever was Jewish. 

The point is, the Jews really did not move in spirts to this land willing to live with the people allready living there in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.. they wished to expell the indigionous people and build a soverign Jewish state.. and there lies the immorality.  Israel is not a legitimate state.

You really should read Michael Neumann’s book, “The Case against Israel,” or hear my interview with him here: 
 

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Barry F. Seidman
Exec. Producer of Equal Time for Freethought

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Posted: 31 May 2006 04:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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Re: This land is who’s land….

[quote author=“Barry”] they wished to expell the indigionous people and build a soverign Jewish state.. and there lies the immorality.  Israel is not a legitimate state.

You really should read Michael Neumann’s book, “The Case against Israel,” or hear my interview with him here: 
 

The Indo-Europeans expelled the native Europeans in continental Europe. The Saxons expelled the Angles and Jutes in much of England. The Goths expelled much of central Europe after the fall of Rome. The Spanish Christians expelled the Moslems and Jews after 1492. The Nazis expelled the Jews from almost all of Eastern Europe. The Spanish expelled the natives in South and Central America, and exterminated them in the Caribbean. The English, French and Spanish expelled the natives from North America. The Mongols expelled peoples in a large swath from China to the borders of Europe. Et cetera, ad nauseam.

No state on earth is legitimate on these grounds.

I am not familiar with Neumann’s work, but if this is his reasoning it strikes me as specious. I am quite familiar with the more famous work of Edward Said which I also view as (at least in part) specious. And given the name of his book, I would not expect Neumann to provide me with a nuanced, objective view of the situation.

The fact is that I have listened to so many blood-soaked justifications for murders on both sides of this conflict as to be really fed up with it. Anyone justifying murders on either side now, on whatever terms, is in my opinion morally culpable. If that’s what Neumann does, I am very sorry to hear it.

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Doug

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El sueño de la razón produce monstruos

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Posted: 18 June 2006 05:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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Re: This land is who’s land….

[quote author=“dougsmith”][quote author=“Barry”] they wished to expell the indigionous people and build a soverign Jewish state.. and there lies the immorality.  Israel is not a legitimate state.

You really should read Michael Neumann’s book, “The Case against Israel,” or hear my interview with him here: 
 

The Indo-Europeans expelled the native Europeans in continental Europe. The Saxons expelled the Angles and Jutes in much of England. The Goths expelled much of central Europe after the fall of Rome. The Spanish Christians expelled the Moslems and Jews after 1492. The Nazis expelled the Jews from almost all of Eastern Europe. The Spanish expelled the natives in South and Central America, and exterminated them in the Caribbean. The English, French and Spanish expelled the natives from North America. The Mongols expelled peoples in a large swath from China to the borders of Europe. Et cetera, ad nauseam.

No state on earth is legitimate on these grounds.

I am not familiar with Neumann’s work, but if this is his reasoning it strikes me as specious. I am quite familiar with the more famous work of Edward Said which I also view as (at least in part) specious. And given the name of his book, I would not expect Neumann to provide me with a nuanced, objective view of the situation.

The fact is that I have listened to so many blood-soaked justifications for murders on both sides of this conflict as to be really fed up with it. Anyone justifying murders on either side now, on whatever terms, is in my opinion morally culpable. If that’s what Neumann does, I am very sorry to hear it.

          ______

doug & Barry,
You may or may not know this but the Jews were offered land in unoccupied areas as their homeland. They were offered land in Lebanon and in a country in northeastern Africa but they refused.
Bob

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