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Spreading the truth about Islam
Posted: 06 November 2012 02:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 106 ]
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sine dues - 06 November 2012 12:53 PM

ok affluenza, it sounds to me like you are dancing around….‘oh the religion never says to do this or that ...that is just just a few loonies…..and yet the practice of female discrimination continues…and islam is the doctrine pushing it forward…...but not that the religion says to do this ....and yet the torture goes on…..

....and yes male circumcision is genital mutilation that is tolerated in the west !

No. You see my problem is I like to be critical in a fair manner. If female gential mutilation cannot be found in religious scripture it is not an act from the religion and the source is something else entirely. i. e. Culture. Sometimes culture and religion is hard to separate I know but for the purpose of fair discussion and remaining objective it’s the best path.

Unlike some people I don’t suddenly switch off my critical thinking capacity just because it’s easier to attribute vile acts to religion.

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Posted: 06 November 2012 02:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 107 ]
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Affluenza is right, of course. We all go crazy when the religious tell us that our morality comes from Judeo-Christianity, but when it comes to the bad stuff, we are quick to blame religion.

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Posted: 07 November 2012 12:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 108 ]
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Affluenza - 06 November 2012 11:32 AM
TimB - 06 November 2012 09:31 AM
Affluenza - 06 November 2012 08:15 AM
TimB - 05 November 2012 08:35 PM

Despite more scholarly criticisms of the Taliban’s draconian interpretation and enforcemtn of Sharia Law (and they are not the only extremists in Islam), they are an element of Islam. Killing little girls for wantig to go to school, hasn’t happened lately, in any extremist elements of other religions, that I know of.  Vaginal mutilation of girls is another practice that has apparently not ended completely either.  I have no doubt that Islamic scholars would not interpret this as justifiable, but it has happened and perhaps still does by certain elements who consider themselves to be Muslim.  The criticism by scholars does not appear to be effective in eradicating some of the horrendous things that continue to be done under the auspices of Islamic faith.

Muslims make up about 25% of the worlds population…there will be loonies in any segment of any population…but do not mistake cultural practice i.e female gential mutilation with religious practice…there are many cultures that practice it and it’s not exclusive to Islam.

In the Qu’ran there is nothing on the practice…and in Hadith’s they are weak at best.

From wikipedia:
“In May of 2012 it was reported by several news sources that the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt was working to decriminalize female circumcision (FGM). According to reporter Mariz Tadros, “in Egypt the Muslim Brotherhood have offered to circumcise women for a nominal fee as part of their community services, a move that threatens to reverse decades of local struggle against the harmful practice. ... ... Many of the Brothers (and Salafis) argue that while it is not mandatory, it is nevertheless mukarama (preferable, pleasing in the eyes of God)... “

You just supported what I said. It even says it’s not mandatory. i.e imposing a culture not religious doctrine.

Well it’s partly a cultural artifact and partially a religious influence.  Cutting off a clitoris in the hopes of pleasing Allah seems pretty religious to me (as well as an example of an element within the Islamic faith/culture that has not been eradicated by the vaunted scholars)..

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Posted: 07 November 2012 12:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 109 ]
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George - 06 November 2012 10:34 AM
TimB - 06 November 2012 09:14 AM
George - 06 November 2012 05:55 AM
TimB - 05 November 2012 08:35 PM

Vaginal mutilation of girls is another practice that has apparently not ended completely either.

Jewish atheists mutilate their sons’ penises. Atheism is so evil.

The female “circumciision” that is sometimes done, is equivalent to a male circumcision in which the entire penis was chopped off, not just the foreskin.

I disagree but fine, have it your way: atheism is a little less evil than Islam. Better?

Okay, how about this.  Cutting off the clitoris in female circumcision is only equivalent to ctting off the top 1/3 of the penis.  Anyone who cuts off my foreskin is evil?  Meh…  Anyone who cuts off the top 1/3 of my penis is evil?  Frikkin’ yes, those are some evil MF’ers..

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“Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb… We are bound to others, past and present… And by each crime and every kindness… We birth our future.”  Sonmi, 2144.

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Posted: 23 November 2012 07:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 110 ]
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The problem is orthodox Islam, and not the hundreds of million of peaceful and openly or secretly heterodox Muslims.

TruthHathCome, have you read Irshad Manji’s book “The Trouble with Islam Today” ? She describes the battle going on inside Islam between orthodox and heterodox Muslims. The book is excellent. She came up with a very practical proposal how Islam can be reformed.

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Posted: 23 November 2012 07:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 111 ]
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From The Aquariana Key:

“It will be women who will topple traditional Islam

It will be Islamic women who will demand Western style democratic rights of self-determination and equality in society. Traditional Islam will not be able to bend traditional doctrines that hold women in inferior status without violent opposition from hard-line traditionalists. But this criticism by Muslim women will prove to be the breaker of Islam unless miraculously there appears another Prophet or Mahdhi who has spiritual authority to override Mohammed and bring Islam up-to-date ethically with universal humanitarian principles. ”

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Posted: 23 November 2012 09:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 112 ]
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arielmessenger - 23 November 2012 07:47 PM

From The Aquariana Key:

“It will be women who will topple traditional Islam

It will be Islamic women who will demand Western style democratic rights of self-determination and equality in society. Traditional Islam will not be able to bend traditional doctrines that hold women in inferior status without violent opposition from hard-line traditionalists. But this criticism by Muslim women will prove to be the breaker of Islam unless miraculously there appears another Prophet or Mahdhi who has spiritual authority to override Mohammed and bring Islam up-to-date ethically with universal humanitarian principles. “

I wouldn’t mind seeing this “prophesy” come true.  But the last part, about another prophet bringing Islam up to date, would also topple traditional Islam, as it is an absolutely fundamental tenet that Muhamad was the final prophet.

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“Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb… We are bound to others, past and present… And by each crime and every kindness… We birth our future.”  Sonmi, 2144.

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Posted: 23 November 2012 09:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 113 ]
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TimB - 23 November 2012 09:03 PM
arielmessenger - 23 November 2012 07:47 PM

From The Aquariana Key:

“It will be women who will topple traditional Islam

It will be Islamic women who will demand Western style democratic rights of self-determination and equality in society. Traditional Islam will not be able to bend traditional doctrines that hold women in inferior status without violent opposition from hard-line traditionalists. But this criticism by Muslim women will prove to be the breaker of Islam unless miraculously there appears another Prophet or Mahdhi who has spiritual authority to override Mohammed and bring Islam up-to-date ethically with universal humanitarian principles. “

I wouldn’t mind seeing this “prophesy” come true.  But the last part, about another prophet bringing Islam up to date, would also topple traditional Islam, as it is an absolutely fundamental tenet that Muhamad was the final prophet.

That’s one of the big reasons why Muhammad’s religion must be changed. It suffers the same founder narcissism as found with Paul and Moses and probably each and every ambitious male who wanted to control the world, even from their graves. It’s really the same thing as seen with pharaoh’s putting curses on anyone who robbed their tombs. One of the spiritual wisdom sayings that holds true is, “God is God of the living, not the dead.” The Spirit is in no man’s control and why any man would think
he could stop the Spirit from reaching others as it rad reached him is only a fool’s hubris. The past cannot be allowed to dictate the present or the future when the demands of the present and future are far removed from the ancient world that produced the past religious visions. And we will see Islam transformed as centered on Muhammad and Muhammad’s ideas about God and world Islam cannot give moral guidance: it is too thoroughly polluted with male yang energy and lacks any Divine Feminine presence in the Quran’s teachings. Women will suffer even more relegation to object status as property under the ownership and control of men under Muhammadism than under Judaism and Christianity which have at least heard the voice of women.

[ Edited: 23 November 2012 09:57 PM by arielmessenger ]
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Posted: 23 November 2012 10:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 114 ]
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It’s love! Brother Love, Hey! Brother Love’s travelin’ salvation show.  Pack up the babies and grab the old ladies…

...Sorry, your preaching gets to me sometimes.  But I tend to agree with you on Islam’s relative suppression of women.

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“Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb… We are bound to others, past and present… And by each crime and every kindness… We birth our future.”  Sonmi, 2144.

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Posted: 24 November 2012 05:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 115 ]
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TimB - 23 November 2012 10:33 PM

It’s love! Brother Love, Hey! Brother Love’s travelin’ salvation show.  Pack up the babies and grab the old ladies…

...Sorry, your preaching gets to me sometimes.  But I tend to agree with you on Islam’s relative suppression of women.

But I’m here to guide you spiritually-challenged atheists into bicameral unification so that you can be whole-brained and holy thereby. Jeez, I thought everyone
knew that by now..

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Posted: 24 November 2012 12:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 116 ]
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arielmessenger - 24 November 2012 05:55 AM

But I’m here to guide you spiritually-challenged atheists into bicameral unification so that you can be whole-brained and holy thereby. Jeez, I thought everyone knew that by now..

I guess it’s your hyper-inflated ego that makes you think you are smarter and more capable than the rest of us here that is most nauseating. 

Occam

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Posted: 24 November 2012 03:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 117 ]
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Occam. - 24 November 2012 12:27 PM
arielmessenger - 24 November 2012 05:55 AM

But I’m here to guide you spiritually-challenged atheists into bicameral unification so that you can be whole-brained and holy thereby. Jeez, I thought everyone knew that by now..

I guess it’s your hyper-inflated ego that makes you think you are smarter and more capable than the rest of us here that is most nauseating. 

Occam

And you don’t think I find atheist egotism that constantly derides fundamentalist theism just as nauseating? Guess again. How does it feel to have the same argument
leveled at you guys as you do to theists? You know, the one where you guys chuckle and laugh about how dumb Christians are to take religious mythology as real history. This “I’m smarter than you” attitude pervades all forums on which atheists interact with theists so to me, what your doing here is just hypocritical whining when the tables are turned and you get to experience what you guys constantly dish out to theist. I can’t help it if your foundational ideology can’t handle intellectual and moral scrutiny. I’m just here to even things up so you won’t go trotting off again attacking the weakest theistic community and thinking that by doing so you defeat the strongest theist community.

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Posted: 24 November 2012 09:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 118 ]
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And you don’t think I find atheist egotism that constantly derides fundamentalist theism just as nauseating? Guess again.

You’re confusing having your own arrogance being pointed out for egotism.

Frankly, I can think of nothing more arrogant then an insignifigent group or anthropoid bipeds on a trivial dustspeck of a planet in a minor galaxy claiming “We are The elect.” That’s exactly what your crowd does.

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Posted: 26 November 2012 09:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 119 ]
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In Egypt, fundamentalists have created a strategy of harassing women on the streets to make them want to stay at home. On buses men are touching women’s breasts and butts. There was a documentary about it on German tv last night. It seems epidemic.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19440656

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Posted: 26 November 2012 09:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 120 ]
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dansmith62 - 26 November 2012 09:09 AM

In Egypt, fundamentalists have created a strategy of harassing women on the streets to make them want to stay at home. On buses men are touching women’s breasts and butts. There was a documentary about it on German tv last night. It seems epidemic.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19440656

So what? Men can do as they please, since “man was not created for the woman’s sake, but woman for the man’s sake,” (1 Corinthians 11:9). And, “For a man is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man,” (1 Corinthians 11:7).

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