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Spreading the truth about Islam
Posted: 26 November 2012 09:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 121 ]
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“In the end nature is horrific and teaches us nothing.” -Mutual of Omicron

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Posted: 27 November 2012 01:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 122 ]
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Not to mention that she apparently has no interest in wearing a hijab.

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 01 December 2012 04:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 123 ]
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Another “truth about Islam”:  Islamic teachings strongly promote protection of the environment, but as a whole, Muslims show little concern about or interest in AGW.  It seems that Allah has ironically produced humans, who as Muslims, still have tribal natures that trump Islamic teachings. Of course that could be said about god-believers of other religions, as well.  But it would be nice if Muslims, as a whole, could get on the bandwagon for something so critical as our failing environment, as it is clearly part of the message in the Quran (over 1500 verses to nature and Earth).

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 26 January 2013 06:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 124 ]
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dansmith62 - 26 November 2012 09:09 AM

In Egypt, fundamentalists have created a strategy of harassing women on the streets to make them want to stay at home. On buses men are touching women’s breasts and butts. There was a documentary about it on German tv last night. It seems epidemic.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19440656


                The Prophet said that women totally dominate men of intellect and possessors of hearts.
                  But ignorant men dominate women, for they are shackled by an animal ferocity.
                They have no kindness, gentleness or love, since animality dominates their nature.
                Love and kindness are human attributes; anger and sensuality belong to the animals.
                  She is the radiance of God, she is not your beloved. 
                She is a creator – you could say that she is not created.

                  ——Jamal-ud-Din Rumi,  13th century theologian and poet 
             
                http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/ahm/gender.htm


I personally would not be too sure about trusting the sources you used.

For example, here is what Phillip Giraldi (former CIA agent) had to say

           
            Depicting Islam as manifestly medieval, backward, and cruel is not new, as it has been going on in one form or another since the Israelis and Palestinians first locked horns. Recognizing that the
            propaganda that is being ground out in the mainstream media derives from that conflict, it is easy to understand why Muslims are persistently portrayed in negative terms….

              In a milder form, the same viewpoint is reflected in both the news coverage and the editorial pages of newspapers like The New York Post, The Washington Post, and even The New York Times….

            to justify the seemingly unending series of wars in Asia, presenting the local people as lacking in the civilized moral and political values that we all hold dear.


With regards to Egypt, if you want to talk about crime, you might find this statement from the agent interesting.


                      There are more than 50 predominantly Muslim countries in the world, and, while most have elements of Shariah in their civil and family law, only two have it as their criminal codes. They are
                      Saudi Arabia and Iran
                      The countries that do not have Shariah as their criminal codes have modeled their laws on European and American models, some borrowing from Roman law and others from
                      British common law.


I am no way implying that European and American laws are ‘‘pure evil’‘.  I just want to emphasize that if one want to find the cause of crime, then one should look at more than just religion.

With regards to Islam, here is what one criminology book states:

 


            “Most scholars attribute the low Saudi Arabian crime rate mainly to the strong influence of Islam in various spheres of life in Saudi society, particularly to the implementation of
              Sharia”

                Transnational and Comparative criminology,
                by Prof Sheptycki & Prof Wardak
                  Page 94

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Posted: 26 January 2013 09:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 125 ]
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Depicting Islam as manifestly medieval, backward, and cruel is not new

It may not be new but in the fundamentalist form which now dominates much of the Middle East and which is taking hold in Egypt and Somalia, Islam is manifestly medieval, backward, and cruel.

Deliberately so. This is not a debatable point sir. This is observed fact. It’s happening.

“Most scholars attribute the low Saudi Arabian crime rate mainly to the strong influence of Islam in various spheres of life in Saudi society, particularly to the implementation of
              Sharia”

Most scholars would be dead nuts wrong too. The reason you have such low crime rates is because the people there who are most likely to commit them know that the governments will do exactly what they say they are going to do. Oddly enough, the best hope for appeal in Saudi Arabia at least would be the executioner actually attempting to persuade the wronged family in the case of rape or murder to accept some sort of payment/indemnity in exchange for sparing the life of the condemned.

Really sir, your apologetics are as tiresome and as invalid as the same excuses we hear from Christians who attempt to jusitify their form of backward medievalism.

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Posted: 26 January 2013 10:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 126 ]
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Thanks for your respectable tone

With regards to you comments. I would like to see the reasons you believe what you state.
In other words, I would appreciate if you could provide evidence of you claims.
Which criminologist or sociologist agrees with what you state??


I have quoted a criminology book which was co-edited by a non-muslim.

You have stated that ‘‘Most scholars would be dead nuts wrong too.’‘

What proof do you have for that?  If you wish to see the book for yourself, go to books.google.com.

The entire chapter is devoted to Saudi Arabia and its crime. Read the evidence and basis for what these scholars say.

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He does not give birth, nor was He born.
And there is none equal to Him.

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Posted: 26 January 2013 10:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 127 ]
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I.J. Abdul Hakeem - 26 January 2013 06:42 PM

Most scholars attribute the low Saudi Arabian crime rate mainly to the strong influence of Islam in various spheres of life in Saudi society, particularly to the implementation of
              Sharia”

                Transnational and Comparative criminology,
                by Prof Sheptycki & Prof Wardak
                  Page 94

To what end? The QUALITY of life in Saudi Arabia absolutely sucks, especially if you are female. Your rape laws are barbaric and bronze aged. There is not a lot positive to say about Saudi society, and to point to a low crime rate is to damn it with the very faintest of praise.

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Posted: 26 January 2013 10:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 128 ]
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It may not be new but in the fundamentalist form which now dominates much of the Middle East and which is taking hold in Egypt and Somalia, Islam is manifestly medieval, backward, and cruel.

Deliberately so. This is not a debatable point sir. This is observed fact. It’s happening.


I couldn’t agree more brother.

But why is the threat so greatly exagerated??
These fanatics hardly pose a threat to US civilians. See
http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/not-all-terrorists-are-muslims/


Why isn’t this fact of Muslim-terrorism played in the news over and over again??


In cases where the religious affiliation of terrorism casualties could be determined, Muslims suffered between 82 and 97 percent of terrorism-related fatalities over the past five years

              2011 NCTC Report—as quoted in
                http://www.loonwatch.com/2012/06/most-victims-of-islamic-terrorism-are-muslims-and-why-america-is-to-blame-for-it/

 

It is frustrating for me and my friends when people treat us suspiciously
because of what some random joe-shmoes have done thousands of miles away.

 

Why aren’t the voices of peaceful Muslims heard in the world??

http://kurzman.unc.edu/islamic-statements-against-terrorism/

 


Why is our perspective not put out there??


Phillip Giraldi answers those questions well, and his article is a must read

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Posted: 26 January 2013 10:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 129 ]
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asanta - 26 January 2013 10:29 PM
I.J. Abdul Hakeem - 26 January 2013 06:42 PM

Most scholars attribute the low Saudi Arabian crime rate mainly to the strong influence of Islam in various spheres of life in Saudi society, particularly to the implementation of
              Sharia”

                Transnational and Comparative criminology,
                by Prof Sheptycki & Prof Wardak
                  Page 94

To what end? The QUALITY of life in Saudi Arabia absolutely sucks, especially if you are female. Your rape laws are barbaric and bronze aged. There is not a lot positive to say about Saudi society, and to point to a low crime rate is to damn it with the very faintest of praise.


Good Question!!!
My counter point is:

How do you know how life is like in Saudi Arabia is like??

I lived there for 8 years, I can tell you that most people I met are very happy.    With regards to women, I suggest you watch these videos, should help clarify how women live in Saudi Arabia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UytO0YrW1zE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B36yZUbd8ZM

 


It is also important to remember what the quote says.

“Most scholars attribute the low Saudi Arabian crime rate mainly to the strong influence of Islam in various spheres of life in Saudi society, particularly to the implementation of
Shariah”


If you want an idea of how right women actually have in their faith, I advise you read Muslim scholarly works on women rights.

http://www.onislam.net/english/reading-islam/research-studies/islamic-thought/451580-gender-equity-in-islam.html


The book I quoted also talks about other influence on Saudi crime. I suggest you read those pages on books.google.com along with the articles in the above webstie to give you
a better idea of what I mean


BTW

What is it in the rape law you are objectifing to exactly?  There could be any number of things you find questionable so please clarify.

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Posted: 27 January 2013 08:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 130 ]
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But why is the threat so greatly exagerated??

1) It’s not exaggerated.

2) Fanatics pose a threat to everybody, including people they regard as their own kind.

As to the so-called sources your trotting out, not one of them is especially objective or reliable, and nobody here has any reason to take them seriously.

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Posted: 27 January 2013 11:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 131 ]
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I know two women from Saudi. One refuses to even visit again. The other visited family but took her ELEVEN year old son with her so he could ‘escort’ her under the onerous Sharia Laws. I had a friend who worked there for 6 years and met her (English) husband there. They had to sneak around under the threat of a lashing, and when they married, they had to keep a marriage certificate translated into Arabic with them at all times. If something happens to a woman, the onus is on her to prove she did nothing ‘wrong’ (according to Sharia Law) to deserve it, otherwise she is in for a whipping, or worse. Crime is very low in North Korea, and it was also low under Romanian dictator Nicolae Ceaușescu, and in Libya under dictator Muammar Gaddafi. None of these are/were desirable places to live either.

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Posted: 27 January 2013 11:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 132 ]
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But why is the threat so greatly exagerated??

1) It’s not exaggerated.


Sir, I must ask you to please read the sources I gave.  They are quote clear that there is at least some evidence the threat is exagerated.

2) Fanatics pose a threat to everybody, including people they regard as their own kind.

Yes, but why does the media not emphasize the last half.  It would spare me a lot of trouble when i go to the airport.

As to the so-called sources your trotting out, not one of them is especially objective or reliable, and nobody here has any reason to take them seriously.

I am more than willing to consider your point of view. But again I cannot start to study that until you present some evidence for you claims

The book was co-edited by a non-Muslim.  I would suggest you read some of it at google books before you start commenting sir.


Thanks for the interesting discussion.  smile

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God, the Self-Sufficient.
He does not give birth, nor was He born.
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Posted: 27 January 2013 12:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 133 ]
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asanta - 27 January 2013 11:11 AM

I know two women from Saudi. One refuses to even visit again. The other visited family but took her ELEVEN year old son with her so he could ‘escort’ her under the onerous Sharia Laws. I had a friend who worked there for 6 years and met her (English) husband there. They had to sneak around under the threat of a lashing, and when they married, they had to keep a marriage certificate translated into Arabic with them at all times. If something happens to a woman, the onus is on her to prove she did nothing ‘wrong’ (according to Sharia Law) to deserve it, otherwise she is in for a whipping, or worse. Crime is very low in North Korea, and it was also low under Romanian dictator Nicolae Ceaușescu, and in Libya under dictator Muammar Gaddafi. None of these are/were desirable places to live either.


Thanks for you comments.


OK.  The knowledge you and I have is contradictory. Which is why we cant refer to personal experiences to draw conlcusions

(I may have done that initially for which I apologize.  I was only stating a personal experience to question you claim. But I admit, it is not authoritative)

Again, I would suggest you please read the sources I give.  You will learn then what the Shariah ACTUALLY teaches.

With regards to Saudi Quality of life.

It was ranked among the countries of “high development” (which includes human rights)
http://hdr.undp.org/en/media/HDR_2011_EN_Table1.pdf


Let me clarify a point

I am NOT saying that Saudi Arabic is the ‘‘shining model of Islamic country’‘.  Saudi Arabia DOES have many problems.  The reason why I am using Saudi Arabia is because that
is the study of the book I quoted.  Saudi Arabi itself does often break Islamic law.
See the quote i gave above from Giraldi. The full article can be seen here
http://original.antiwar.com/giraldi/2012/04/03/the-islamophobia-excuse/

This is also why I gave the links above. So that people could tell when Saudi Arabic is drifting away from Islamic Law or not.

 

With regards to the other countries with low crime.
What is your evidence of their low crime??  How do you know what life is like under many of these place (except for some obvious ones)??


With regards to the rape issue

Muslim scholars are unanimous on this. They maintain that any woman, who, despite doing her utmost to resist these thugs and their ilk, is raped, is not guilty of any sin

http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-about-islam/ethics-and-values/human-rights/168751-are-raped-women-punished-in-islam.html

 


I look forward to learning more from our discussions smile

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Posted: 27 January 2013 01:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 134 ]
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You are not a woman. Sharia is peachy keen for you as a MAN. Sharia Law is all about control of women.

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Posted: 27 January 2013 08:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 135 ]
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The book was co-edited by a non-Muslim.  I would suggest you read some of it at google books before you start commenting sir.

so what?

I don’t debate the merits or lack thereof of self serving fantasy. In the end, self-serving fantasy is all that religion is. A set of precepts which is based on the assumption that a god or gods exists even though there is zero evidence to support any of that.

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