Living in Guatemala because my Social Security won’t support me in the States. I’m originally from the SF Bay Area, but more recently my US headquarters has been in Orange County, CA. Newport Beach and Santa Ana.

66-year-old male Caucasian. Dropped out of high school in the last year, but went back to finish in my 30s and managed to complete 2 years of college.

Here’s the nastiest thing about me, and I might as well get it out there right away. My mama didn’t raise any bigots, but I have become one. While I recognize Israel’s faults, I am firmly on their side on almost all issues because I have developed a deep and abiding loathing of Islam and especially Islamic fundies. I really don’t give a shit how many of them the IDF knocks off. I know that isn’t the right way to feel, but it is nevertheless how I feel.

At the HH we have had an influx of newbies talking about GODbar, and I came for a look-see. I like it so far. Except for the radio. Lots of fascinating stuff there, but I find that if I have to pause for any reason, the damn thing starts over when I click play.

I’m liberal in the way the term was used in the 60s. I support full rights for women and gays and everyone else. I support a woman’s right to chose abortion, up until about the 20th trimester.

In discourse I’m likely to diss religious folks, calling them morons and other things. The good folks at HH finally broke me of using the term “christers”.

More later. Off to do a profile.

Welcome, Grumpy. You expect me to say it but I will nonetheless: bigotry does nobody proud. Hopefully you will learn to dispense with it in time.

Hi grumpy!!!!!!!
It Godzilla!!!!!

Grumpy - 30 December 2008 03:11 PM

Living in Guatemala because my Social Security won’t support me in the States. I’m originally from the SF Bay Area, but more recently my US headquarters has been in Orange County, CA. Newport Beach and Santa Ana.

66-year-old male Caucasian. Dropped out of high school in the last year, but went back to finish in my 30s and managed to complete 2 years of college.

Here’s the nastiest thing about me, and I might as well get it out there right away. My mama didn’t raise any bigots, but I have become one. While I recognize Israel’s faults, I am firmly on their side on almost all issues because I have developed a deep and abiding loathing of Islam and especially Islamic fundies. I really don’t give a shit how many of them the IDF knocks off. I know that isn’t the right way to feel, but it is nevertheless how I feel.

At the HH we have had an influx of newbies talking about GODbar, and I came for a look-see. I like it so far. Except for the radio. Lots of fascinating stuff there, but I find that if I have to pause for any reason, the damn thing starts over when I click play.

I’m liberal in the way the term was used in the 60s. I support full rights for women and gays and everyone else. I support a woman’s right to chose abortion, up until about the 20th trimester.

In discourse I’m likely to diss religious folks, calling them morons and other things. The good folks at HH finally broke me of using the term “christers”.

More later. Off to do a profile.

Hey grumpy,Did you catch any Grateful Dead Shows back then in the Bay Area?

Welcome Grumpy.  Glad to have you here.  Very interesting handle you chose for yourself.  Where are the other six?    Just teasing.

Hi Grumpy.  I can understand choosing to live outside the U.S. to make your S.S. payments go further, but do you come back for medical treatment since I believe medicare doesn’t apply outside the U.S. 

What’s HH? 

While I also tend to have more sympathies for Israel, I recognize that much of the problems are caused by the religious fundamentalists on both sides. 

Unfortunately, most religious folks aren’t morons (a term that stands for low IQ).  Rather, they’ve been brainwashed, usually as children, to believe insane ideas.  Not much we can do to help the older people, but we should do everything we can to assist the kids to learn how to think critically and rationally.

Occam

Occam - 30 December 2008 06:10 PM

... morons (a term that stands for low IQ).

I thought you didn’t believe in IQ measurements, Occam. 

Moron is a controversial term once used in psychology to denote a category of mental retardation.[1] The term was closely tied with the American eugenics movement

dougsmith - 30 December 2008 04:26 PM

Welcome, Grumpy. You expect me to say it but I will nonetheless: bigotry does nobody proud. Hopefully you will learn to dispense with it in time.

Please quote my whole OP and underline the part where I say I’m proud to be a bigot.

Occam - 30 December 2008 06:10 PM

Hi Grumpy.  I can understand choosing to live outside the U.S. to make your S.S. payments go further, but do you come back for medical treatment since I believe medicare doesn’t apply outside the U.S. 

Yep. I fly back to California and go to the UC Irvine Medical Center. They treat me and Medicare foots the bill with a copay. MediCal meets the copay.

There is free hospitalization here, but they don’t have any medicine or equipment.

What’s HH?

heathenhangout.com. A great place. There are academics and just plain folks. No deists. Deists are welcome on our sister board, heathenhub.com. If you like to debate theists, that’s the place to do it. Admin is the same on both boards. They are very patient and forgiving, coming down only on spammers, trolls and flame-warriors.

While I also tend to have more sympathies for Israel, I recognize that much of the problems are caused by the religious fundamentalists on both sides.

On a rational level, I am aware that my feelings are not fair to the Palestinians. My OP was not to proselytize, or convince anyone. It was in the nature of a disclosure. I wanted to be out front, in case anyone from here should go to HH and find my most recent posts there, come back here and charge me with trying to be something I’m not. I’m fully aware that in this case my gut is wrong. That awareness doesn’t change anything.

Unfortunately, most religious folks aren’t morons

I didn’t pull “grumpy” out of my ass.

Grumpy - 31 December 2008 02:18 PM

Please quote my whole OP and underline the part where I say I’m proud to be a bigot.

Please quote my whole OP and underline the part where I say you said you were proud to be a bigot.

You stated it as a fact. I said that that wasn’t anything to be proud of and I hoped you’d dispense with it.

Quoting George:

I thought you didn’t believe in IQ measurements, Occam.

No, it’s just that there’s a lot more that goes into making a person than his/her academic intelligence quotient.  As I recall, a USC psychologist identified close to twenty different separate IQs about thirty years ago.  Psychological adjustment is also very important. 

Occam

Hey, grumpy, it’s the speed-reader. That was a first-time offense, I swear.

Occam - 31 December 2008 04:36 PM

Quoting George:

I thought you didn’t believe in IQ measurements, Occam.

No, it’s just that there’s a lot more that goes into making a person than his/her academic intelligence quotient.  As I recall, a USC psychologist identified close to twenty different separate IQs about thirty years ago.  Psychological adjustment is also very important. 

Occam

He’s right George, there are at least 20 different separate IQs.  On top of it all, they tried to give my younger son and IQ test 3 different times, with 3 different scores (all fairly close together).  HOWEVER, he has classic dyslexia and a few other things that cause him to, how do we say?  Look at the world differenlty.  His brother and I tested very well (I’m not going to give the scores, because that’s not the point).  In comparison, they said they did not believe they got an accurate score on my younger son due to his deslyxia and other problems, then they added genetics to also to come to their conclusion that his score is actually higher than tested.  Add to that, he’s learned, with some assistance, to work around, overcome, many of the affects of dyslexia and alike.

Now here’s the thing, he’s 17 now and the other day he asked to know what his score was.  My first reply was, it was just a score and not important.  He pointed out that his brother and I know ours and thought it only fair he knows his.  I explained to him that they said they could not get an accurate score due to the factors above and given his brother’s and mine, it was probably much higher.  He still wanted to know, adding “That IF it is just a score then what’s the problem?  Why can’t I know mine?”  What I didn’t tell him was that the problem is his score was no where near 3/4 of his brothers and not even 3/4 of mine and to know could hurt.  I finally said it was average.  Not exactly a lie, given that even the pros of IQ tests said that they felt his score was not accurate, it was very close to average though, and he’s not exactly a dumb bunny either.  So, in consideration of the information I have and know, I fudge a little to save his self-esteem, because the truth is, his intelligence probably is higher than tested.

We cannot base intelligence solely on an IQ score, due to cultural biases, learning/emotional problems, etc, and within the 20 different intelligences there is Gardner’s theory of multiple intelligences (musical, linguistic, kinesthetic etc).  I do believe people can be musical geniuses and be lacking in other areas.  So the Stanford-Benet and WISC tests aren’t going to tell you much except “academic IQ”, as Occam puts it and IMO, for someone to overcome some of the problems of learning disabilities and improve their reading skills to a level slightly higher than their achieved grade level, does show a mark of intelligence.  However, when he is tired, his reading suffers, because he is too tired to use what he knows to get around the dyslexia and alike.

Bottomline, IQ tests mean didley, esp when one has various struggles to work through and overcome.

Yes, Mriana, I am aware of the problems with IQ tests. I still believe, however, that even though they are far from perfect, they are sufficient enough to do what we need them to do. There is enough data in the Bell Curve to show that IQ testing does work.