Founder of Catholic Order Led a Double Life
Posted: 04 February 2009 07:33 AM   [ Ignore ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  15305
Joined  2006-02-14

These stories come all too often nowadays ...

From the NYTimes—read it HERE:

Catholic Order Jolted by Reports That Its Founder Led a Double Life

By LAURIE GOODSTEIN
Published: February 3, 2009

The Legionaries of Christ, an influential Roman Catholic religious order, have been shaken by new revelations that their founder, who died a year ago, had an affair with a woman and fathered a daughter just as he and his thriving conservative order were winning the acclaim of Pope John Paul II.

Before his death, the founder, the Rev. Marcial Maciel Degollado, had been forced to leave public ministry by Pope Benedict XVI because of accusations from more than a dozen men who said he had sexually abused them when they were students. ...

 Signature 

Doug

-:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:-

El sueño de la razón produce monstruos

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 February 2009 08:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  403
Joined  2007-08-26
dougsmith - 04 February 2009 07:33 AM

These stories come all too often nowadays ...

From the NYTimes—read it HERE:

Catholic Order Jolted by Reports That Its Founder Led a Double Life

By LAURIE GOODSTEIN
Published: February 3, 2009

The Legionaries of Christ, an influential Roman Catholic religious order, have been shaken by new revelations that their founder, who died a year ago, had an affair with a woman and fathered a daughter just as he and his thriving conservative order were winning the acclaim of Pope John Paul II.

Before his death, the founder, the Rev. Marcial Maciel Degollado, had been forced to leave public ministry by Pope Benedict XVI because of accusations from more than a dozen men who said he had sexually abused them when they were students. ...

Wait a minute: he abused a bunch of boys and he fathered a child out of wedlock? Holy Dagda, what the heck is wrong with these guys??? This goes way beyond
any variation on the theme of “sexual urge,” these people are, well, I don’t know what. “Creepy” seems to fit. “Slimy” also works.

 Signature 

—————————————————
http://www.StephenJGallagher.com
http://StephenJGallagher.blogspot.com

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 February 2009 08:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  15305
Joined  2006-02-14

Yep, looks like a twofer.

 Signature 

Doug

-:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:-

El sueño de la razón produce monstruos

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 February 2009 11:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  438
Joined  2009-01-28

the problem is, a lot of men with homosexual tendencies join the priesthood at an early age thinking the celibacy vow’s gonna “cure” them of urges, and then find out it’s not going to be the case.  as a result, these men are developmentally arrested , and lacking the opportunity for normal sexual growth it’s no big surprise that so many of them exhibit deviant behaviors.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 February 2009 01:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7641
Joined  2008-04-11
skuld - 04 February 2009 11:48 AM

the problem is, a lot of men with homosexual tendencies join the priesthood at an early age thinking the celibacy vow’s gonna “cure” them of urges, and then find out it’s not going to be the case.  as a result, these men are developmentally arrested , and lacking the opportunity for normal sexual growth it’s no big surprise that so many of them exhibit deviant behaviors.

I think that is painting gays with a rather broadly unscientific brush. I think repressed and denied sexual urges for people of any orientation is unhealthy. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of these cases were otherwise heterosexual men looking for an outlet——any outlet, it happens in our prisons all the time.

 Signature 

Church; where sheep congregate to worship a zombie on a stick that turns into a cracker on Sundays…

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 February 2009 01:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  403
Joined  2007-08-26
asanta - 04 February 2009 01:37 PM
skuld - 04 February 2009 11:48 AM

the problem is, a lot of men with homosexual tendencies join the priesthood at an early age thinking the celibacy vow’s gonna “cure” them of urges, and then find out it’s not going to be the case.  as a result, these men are developmentally arrested , and lacking the opportunity for normal sexual growth it’s no big surprise that so many of them exhibit deviant behaviors.

I think that is painting gays with a rather broadly unscientific brush. I think repressed and denied sexual urges for people of any orientation is unhealthy. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of these cases were otherwise heterosexual men looking for an outlet——any outlet, it happens in our prisons all the time.

I would agree with you there. I’d go one step further and say that any human being who (absent some hormonal or other physical deficiency) decides that they are up
for an entire lifetime of celibacy probably has one or more mental-health issues that they (foolishly) think they can address by turning their backs on the world, the flesh
and the devil.

 Signature 

—————————————————
http://www.StephenJGallagher.com
http://StephenJGallagher.blogspot.com

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 February 2009 02:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
Moderator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4052
Joined  2006-11-28

any human being who (absent some hormonal or other physical deficiency) decides that they are up
for an entire lifetime of celibacy probably has one or more mental-health issues that they (foolishly) think they can address by turning their backs on the world, the flesh
and the devil.

I have to disagree with this. It is very much rooted in the modern perception of sexuality as normal and healthy. And while I, of course, share this view of sexuality, it doesn’t require a mental illness to have a different view of it. Growing up learning that sexuality is intrinsically evil and to be strictly limiting to necessary procreation within sanctioned social institutions, one would quite reasonably adopt this view. In fact, I would argue it has been the dominant view among much of humanity in a variety of cultural and historical periods, and that the modern view is the exception, based on sc ientific understanding and technological breakthroughs in birth control and, to a lesser extent, STD treatment. The sex=immorality view might be foolish and might pre-dispose one to unhealthy sexual behaviors, but it need not stem from some underlying psychopathology.

I do agree that pedophilia among priests seems unlikely to have any correlation with any “true” underlying homosexuality. It seems more likely IMHO to be, as Asanta suggests, an outlet for sexual urges that cannot be channeled into more conventional paths.

 Signature 

The SkeptVet
The SkeptVet Blog
Militant Agnostic: I don’t know, and neither do you!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 February 2009 04:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2457
Joined  2008-06-03
mckenzievmd - 04 February 2009 02:35 PM

...I do agree that pedophilia among priests seems unlikely to have any correlation with any “true” underlying homosexuality. It seems more likely IMHO to be, as Asanta suggests, an outlet for sexual urges that cannot be channeled into more conventional paths.

I agree on that - in addition to boys, there were many young girls abused by priests over the years. Many of them were involved in the recent lawsuits against the church. It does not seem to have been an exclusively homosexual trend. (Although there is no denying that the majority of the abuse cases did involve young men, at least those who came forward.)

 Signature 

Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it’s a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.    - Lex Luthor

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 February 2009 04:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  15305
Joined  2006-02-14

I imagine that for a young gay man growing up with strong conservative religious views, the priesthood would seem a particularly suitable career move, since it would mean avoiding traditional marriage without having to dissemble or explain anything. That structural issue alone may explain the relative preponderance of same-sex abuse among the Catholic priesthood. That said, in this case the priest appears to have been bisexual.

 Signature 

Doug

-:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:-

El sueño de la razón produce monstruos

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 February 2009 04:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7641
Joined  2008-04-11
Jules - 04 February 2009 04:39 PM

I agree on that - in addition to boys, there were many young girls abused by priests over the years. Many of them were involved in the recent lawsuits against the church. It does not seem to have been an exclusively homosexual trend. (Although there is no denying that the majority of the abuse cases did involve young men, at least those who came forward.)

I’ve known a couple of women who had ‘affairs’ with their catholic priests. I don’t think either of them saw it as abuse, although both women were teens at the time. I doubt that they would ever consider going to the authorities a suing for what happened. My guess is that this is not terribly uncommon. I would also guess that the children who were abused were just an object that could be controlled/intimidated/flattered by a man with a suppressed sex drive and low confidence level. I read a joke about priests and masturbation; a study showed that 98% of all priests masturbated, the other 2% had no arms! I would not be surprised if at some point stories start appearing about nuns having ‘affairs’ with boys/girls/priests/nuns, after all they are humans with a sex drive too.

 Signature 

Church; where sheep congregate to worship a zombie on a stick that turns into a cracker on Sundays…

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 February 2009 04:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2457
Joined  2008-06-03

I wish I could find an article I read several years ago - I would have loved to get some opinions on it. I don’t know if it was true or fabricated/exaggerated by the author. It was written by a young man who intended on becoming a priest and joined a seminary, but left after learning some disturbing things.

He said that the church leadership openly hinted to the young men in training that vows of celibacy and the prohibition of sex between men pertained to sex with adults only. Somehow those who had not fully ‘come of age’ were exempt? I’m sure I don’t remember the wording exactly years later, but the gist of it was that god/church only forbid priests from having sex with men and women, but “boys” provided some kind of loophole to the rules, as they were neither “men” nor women.

It was a shocking allegation, and I was disgusted by it. I also wondered how true it was, and if the author was exaggerating or making it up - many authors have been caught doing that. I certainly hope the article was a fabrication.

 Signature 

Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it’s a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.    - Lex Luthor

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 February 2009 05:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2457
Joined  2008-06-03
asanta - 04 February 2009 04:51 PM

I’ve known a couple of women who had ‘affairs’ with their catholic priests. I don’t think either of them saw it as abuse, although both women were teens at the time. I doubt that they would ever consider going to the authorities a suing for what happened. My guess is that this is not terribly uncommon. I would also guess that the children who were abused were just an object that could be controlled/intimidated/flattered by a man with a suppressed sex drive and low confidence level. I read a joke about priests and masturbation; a study showed that 98% of all priests masturbated, the other 2% had no arms! I would not be surprised if at some point stories start appearing about nuns having ‘affairs’ with boys/girls/priests/nuns, after all they are humans with a sex drive too.

I suspect there is more abuse of both boys and girls, whether young or teen, than people realize. Look at these shocking allegations in Alaska!

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=6702044&page=1

“Kenney and Abouchuk are among a group of 43 Alaska Natives who claim in a lawsuit that the Jesuit order used remote Alaskan villages as a “dumping ground” for priests who sexually abused children, and accuse the president of Seattle University, who led the Jesuit order in the region from 1990 to 1996, of covering up some of the alleged abuse.

Lawyers for the plaintiffs say the latest claims are part of a larger pattern of alleged abuse over nearly 60 years by Jesuit priests in Alaska, involving at least 315 known victims, nearly all of them Native Alaskans, and nearly 30 abusers.

Another 60 men and women who say they were abused by Jesuits in remote parts of northern Alaska between the 1940s and 2001 are preparing another lawsuit. Attorneys say that in some villages, some of which have as few as 500 residents, they know of dozens of abuse victims.”

 Signature 

Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it’s a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.    - Lex Luthor

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 February 2009 05:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7641
Joined  2008-04-11

I am shocked, shocked, I say…...
well, not really…. sick

 Signature 

Church; where sheep congregate to worship a zombie on a stick that turns into a cracker on Sundays…

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 February 2009 07:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  438
Joined  2009-01-28
asanta - 04 February 2009 01:37 PM
skuld - 04 February 2009 11:48 AM

the problem is, a lot of men with homosexual tendencies join the priesthood at an early age thinking the celibacy vow’s gonna “cure” them of urges, and then find out it’s not going to be the case.  as a result, these men are developmentally arrested , and lacking the opportunity for normal sexual growth it’s no big surprise that so many of them exhibit deviant behaviors.

I think that is painting gays with a rather broadly unscientific brush. I think repressed and denied sexual urges for people of any orientation is unhealthy. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of these cases were otherwise heterosexual men looking for an outlet——any outlet, it happens in our prisons all the time.

erm.  sorry ‘bout that; guess my post didn’t come out the way i meant it to.  :/  wasn’t meaning to imply it as a gay thing but the enforced celibacy that is dysfunctional.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 June 2012 11:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7641
Joined  2008-04-11
dougsmith - 04 February 2009 08:15 AM

Yep, looks like a twofer.

far beyond a twofer, I’d give him at least a threefer!

 Signature 

Church; where sheep congregate to worship a zombie on a stick that turns into a cracker on Sundays…

Profile
 
 
Posted: 08 June 2012 12:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
Moderator
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5173
Joined  2010-06-16

Whatever their intial problems are, testosterone drives their sexual needs to the point of overwhelming any prohibitions, inhibitions or guilt they may have.  This combined with the common behavior of submitting to power gives priests an easy route to having sex with children or with women in their church.

OH, and welcome back, Jules.  We’ve missed you. smile

===
[edit] Whoops, I missed the fact that this was an ancient thread that was reactivated by a spammer (its post was deleted).  So Jules is, unfortunately, not back.
===

Occam

[ Edited: 08 June 2012 09:11 AM by Occam. ]
 Signature 

Succinctness, clarity’s core.

Profile