They’re mostly held by the Iraqis, and the ones currently held by the U.S. are probably the best treated. So I don’t see why you’d think they are a big concern in the world. Again, Gitmo has been the focus of world criticism regarding detainees held by the U.S.
We don’t judge the policies of any nation by it’s actions within the last few months.Abu Graib was what brought the worlds attention onto the mistreatment and torture of Iraqi Detainees.
I consider this a place to discuss relevant issues which ARE part of world focus(not just the focus of American Idol watching,oblivious Americans who can’t name the three branches of Government.)The New York Times,The Washington Post,The Nation and many other world-wide News outlets,to say nothing of the Iraqi citizens themselves,are still focusing on the detention and mistreatment of Iraqis in Iraq.
Would you consider Iraq part of the world?And therefore a legitimate source of criticism regarding detainees?
96,000 Iraqi citizens arrested and detained in prisons in Iraq-since 2003.
Yeah they’re closing down Gitmo now too,does that mean we forget about all the atrocities that went on there too?
They’re mostly held by the Iraqis, and the ones currently held by the U.S. are probably the best treated. So I don’t see why you’d think they are a big concern in the world. Again, Gitmo has been the focus of world criticism regarding detainees held by the U.S.
We don’t judge the policies of any nation by it’s actions within the last few months.Abu Graib was what brought the worlds attention onto the mistreatment and torture of Iraqi Detainees.
Oh. So we’re supposed to believe the abuses that have since been detected and punished from years past were standard practice (or the like) right on up through the past few months?
I consider this a place to discuss relevant issues which ARE part of world focus(not just the focus of American Idol watching,oblivious Americans who can’t name the three branches of Government.)The New York Times,The Washington Post,The Nation and many other world-wide News outlets,to say nothing of the Iraqi citizens themselves,are still focusing on the detention and mistreatment of Iraqis in Iraq.
So you think detainees in Iraq are a big concern in the world right now because detainees in Iraq are a big concern in the world right now? That’s valid ...
Would you consider Iraq part of the world?And therefore a legitimate source of criticism regarding detainees?
Sure. What’s the evidence that the world (not counting you) is particularly concerned about U.S. treatment of detainees in Iraq? And if they are, please try to explain why they’re not even more concerned when we turn them over to the Iraqis from whom the detainees receive worse treatment, by and large.
96,000 Iraqi citizens arrested and detained in prisons in Iraq-since 2003.
You may have missed it, but detainees were periodically released in considerable numbers.
Yeah they’re closing down Gitmo now too,does that mean we forget about all the atrocities that went on there too?
All what atrocities? You mean like the legend of the Qu’ran flushed down a toilet? The atrocity of “prolonged standing”? Forced feeding of prisoners on hunger strike? Be specific.
At Gitmo the incidents of attacks against the guards, many of whom have had serious injuries, so far out number the incidents of actual abuse of prisoners that the comparison is a joke. It’s about 1-to-100. The prisoners there are getting fat eating their religiously correct food, when not spitting it into the faces of their guards. The Europeans whined about the need for the closing, but are reluctant to accept any detainees in their own countries.
At Gitmo the incidents of attacks against the guards, many of whom have had serious injuries, so far out number the incidents of actual abuse of prisoners that the comparison is a joke. It’s about 1-to-100. The prisoners there are getting fat eating their religiously correct food, when not spitting it into the faces of their guards. The Europeans whined about the need for the closing, but are reluctant to accept any detainees in their own countries.
[Edited to remove personal attack. dougsmith—Admin]
I realize that I am usurping the responsibilities of our moderators, but I desire to register my objection to the personal nature of your post, Vyazma. While I refuse to interact with Bryan for reasons parallel to your own, I nevertheless feel that this kind of talk lowers the standards of discourse in our little community. I realize that it is frustrating to deal with intellectual dishonesty, but the only civilized option available to you is to ignore Bryan. When I first came here, I engaged Bryan honestly and fairly, and after much wasted effort I realized that honest discussion with Bryan is impossible. I therefore terminated all interaction with him. I recommend that same course of action to you.
I realize that I am usurping the responsibilities of our moderators, but I desire to register my objection to the personal nature of your post, Vyazma. While I refuse to interact with Bryan for reasons parallel to your own, I nevertheless feel that this kind of talk lowers the standards of discourse in our little community. I realize that it is frustrating to deal with intellectual dishonesty, but the only civilized option available to you is to ignore Bryan. When I first came here, I engaged Bryan honestly and fairly, and after much wasted effort I realized that honest discussion with Bryan is impossible. I therefore terminated all interaction with him. I recommend that same course of action to you.
Negative Chris.If you choose to ignore folks that’s your business.Seeing as how I don’t have Bryan on Ignore(as you do.),I must counter his viewpoints the best way I see fit.
Also,there are many other ways in which the standard of discourse is lowered in this “little community”.
Good Day.
VYAZMA, much though you may disagree with posts here on the forum, stooping to personal attacks is counterproductive and explicitly against the rules. Continued violations in this regard will result in banning.
My only retort in this regard would be to call attention to the apparent “conflict” which is contained in the Preamble and Rules section.Particularly the conflict between rule No.5 and the Preamble itself. Thank you.
My only retort in this regard would be to call attention to the apparent “conflict” which is contained in the Preamble and Rules section.Particularly the conflict between rule No.5 and the Preamble itself. Thank you.
I don’t understand your point. If you have concerns regarding the rules or how they are officiated, please open up a thread in the CFI Forums Feedback folder or the Issues & Complaints folder, depending on the case, and we can discuss it there. Thanks.
I realize that I am usurping the responsibilities of our moderators, but I desire to register my objection to the personal nature of your post, Vyazma. While I refuse to interact with Bryan for reasons parallel to your own, I nevertheless feel that this kind of talk lowers the standards of discourse in our little community. I realize that it is frustrating to deal with intellectual dishonesty, but the only civilized option available to you is to ignore Bryan. When I first came here, I engaged Bryan honestly and fairly, and after much wasted effort I realized that honest discussion with Bryan is impossible. I therefore terminated all interaction with him. I recommend that same course of action to you.
This reeks of contrived nepotism,fraternization,and paternalism.Thanks for going out of your way Chris.I realize that this is off-topic,I hope this too isn’t regarded as a personal attack.
See Gordon Cucullu’s book, ‘Inside Gitmo’ for the lists and details of the attacks on medics and guards by the detainees. Many of the detainees are not very nice guys, being religious fanatics of the first order, and remarkably violent. Religious zealots and fanatics of every stripe have a long history of radical violence and murder, all in the name of a particular god who is said to reward these loonies in the afterlife.
In addition, the AP, through the Freedom of Information Act, obtained 100’s of military incident reports and made them public. They show a continually agressive attitude toward guards and other personnel.
These detainees have food and accomodations quite literally better than I experienced as a US serviceman in a combat zone.
I am not against the closing of the detaining facility at Gitmo. I just don’t want these guys getting out and continuing their violent and dangerous activities wherever they are kept.
VYAZMA—-Obviously I don’t know what you said that got the moderators upset, but I do understand the frustration and even anger that a forum like this can generate when folks have views that seem to defy rationality or logic. However, even though I often disagree passionately with your opinions and views, I do like to consider them and may learn from them, so I hope you continue to post here. I have had to stifle the impulse [which I seem to always have] to spout off with an insult or two myself when I read something I feel is beyond the rational pale. I have recieved a couple of warnings from the moderators on these and have accepted them with good grace. This is a pretty civil forum and I know the moderators strive to keep it that way.
Also, I don’t ignore anyone’s posts. Reading posts that inflame me and get me mad can be an exercise in self-control, which I sorely need. However, if I begin to beat up on my flatscreen and curse, I guess I will have to stop reading posts by some folks.
[VYAZMA—-Obviously I don’t know what you said that got the moderators upset, but I do understand the frustration and even anger that a forum like this can generate when folks have views that seem to defy rationality or logic. However, even though I often disagree passionately with your opinions and views, I do like to consider them and may learn from them, so I hope you continue to post here. I have had to stifle the impulse [which I seem to always have] to spout off with an insult or two myself when I read something I feel is beyond the rational pale. I have recieved a couple of warnings from the moderators on these and have accepted them with good grace. This is a pretty civil forum and I know the moderators strive to keep it that way.
Also, I don’t ignore anyone’s posts. Reading posts that inflame me and get me mad can be an exercise in self-control, which I sorely need. However, if I begin to beat up on my flatscreen and curse, I guess I will have to stop reading posts by some folks.
Anyway, good luck.
Ahh…In regards to my reply to you,it wasn’t that bad.My reply to Bryan was pretty bad.
In my response to your comments about Europe not wanting to take any of of the detainees,I just used an analogy.If you had bought 100 tons of soup kettles and then you found they had holes in them,I wouldn’t want you trying to pawn them off on me as scrap.I would be content to see “you”(and that was really a generic “you” to suit the analogy)sit on the street corner and look like a @#^%$.(the edited word here was a very mild “expletive” synonomous with a mule or donkey). I see much worse language spread all over the forum.Anyways,I probably did want to raise your hackles a bit.I’m sure you can dish it out,feel free to sling it my way.Adios.
