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9 year old girl excumunicated but stepfather who raped her and got her pregnant is not.
Posted: 08 March 2009 10:16 AM   [ Ignore ]
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This sort of hypocrisy is what gets the Catholic Church in trouble all the time. A 9 year old Brazilian girl was allegedly raped by her stepfather and became pregnant with twins. Her mother authorized doctors to perform an abortion. The Catholic Church in their ultimate wisdom excommunicated the child, the mother, and the doctors who performed the abortion but did not excommunicate the stepfather because even though what the stepfather did was “a heinous crime.. the abortion.. was more serious”. Are you Kidding Me????

I love this statement from archbishop Jose Cardoso Sobrinho who excommunicated this little girl. His statement to the press was “God’s law is above any human law. So when human law..is contrary to God’s law, this human law has no value”. I understand why he is saying that but in his arrogance he forgot to qualify that with “... human law has no value to Catholics” since obviously it has a great deal of value to those of us who don’t believe this stuff.

Clearly the Catholic Church has a right to excommunicate anyone who doesn’t hold their beliefs. More power to them. Maybe more of these stories will convince a few more people to switch to our team. What kind of God throws away an innocent 9 year old girl and keeps a rapist pedophile scum in his fold?

Here’s the story: http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/ny-wovati0812527514mar08,0,5869588.story

[ Edited: 08 March 2009 10:22 AM by macgyver ]
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Posted: 08 March 2009 10:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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This makes no sense outside of Catholic dogma, but it is in line with that dogma.

Rape is a forgiveable sin, but the murder of innocent children is not. The belief that abortion is the murder of innocents is at the crux of this sort of ruling.

A lot of religious dogma is being left in the dust by science, but it takes an agonizingly long time. The sooner the better, I say, but there is always a period of some chaos as this happens.

This is happening in the Catholic church. Most Catholics I know do not believe that the Pope is infallable or follow every Vatican edict blindly. Church is more of a social event, and provides a support group.

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Posted: 08 March 2009 11:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Even if you accept their logic, which rests entirely on the belief that an unborn fetus is a complete human life with all the same rights as any other individual ( something I don’t agree with), how does the church justify excommunicating a 9 year old girl? A child with that level of maturity does not make decisions for themselves. They basically do what their parents tell them to do. Even when they make decisions for themselves they are incapable of understanding the consequences, and therefor can not be held fully responsible. It seems as though the church is following the black and white, right is right and wrong is wrong approach that makes religious dogma such a dangerous thing.

None of this is surprising. In fact its expected. Its just hard to fathom that there are mature human beings who blindly follow a faith that promotes such twisted reasoning. This has got to have even a few catholics scratching their heads.

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Posted: 08 March 2009 12:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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The real hypocrisy of the Church is that it does not excommunicate murderers. Murdering a dozen adults is a forgivable sin. Murdering two embryos is unforgivable.

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Posted: 08 March 2009 01:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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I think you people are missing something.  A murderer is far more llikely to accept and forgive another murderer than he might for someone who was ,say, an arsonist.  Similarly, I’d certainly expect the priests to look more gently on a pedophile than on the other “sins”.

Occam

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Posted: 08 March 2009 03:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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A nine-year-old carrying ONE fetus is dangerous and deadly enough. A nine-year-old carrying twins, as this child was, surely would have resulted in death. Even in their predominantly Catholic country, laws still stated abortions were allowed when the mother’s life was in danger. This was clearly the case.

I had read about this case a few days ago and was sickened. I read a slightly different version, however. The version I read stated that the girl was not excommunicated due to her young age and the fact that she did not make the decision to go through with the abortion - her mother was the one who chose for her. So the church excommunicated the mother, for making the decision, and the doctors who carried out the procedure. I’d read the story on a few various news outlets, but this was the first one I came across:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7926694.stm

Absolutely disgusting. I realise the church wants to be “consistent” in its message and punishments, but at the death of its youngest members? The poor girl. I read the church’s solution would have been to send the girl to live at a hospital for high-risk pregnancies, and have her deliver via C-section. Unbelievable.

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Posted: 08 March 2009 04:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Correction: It looks like I misread the article. The little girl was not excommunicated. Just mom and the doctors. I would assume this wasn’t the first abortion they had ever performed though unless they were interns. Why were they only excommunicated now. Were all the other fetuses lives less valuable?

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Posted: 08 March 2009 05:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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For what it’s worth, macgyver. it doesn’t make it much better that the little girl is still a church member.  downer

I would imagine that the doctors - to make their lives bearable in such a catholic country - are very discrete about performing abortions even when they are legal. After all, they can be excommunicated from their own church even while staying within the law! Perhaps the court keeps cases sealed for the protection of those involved. So I wonder if gossip or word of this case leaked out to the church due to the extraordinary nature of the case? Or perhaps the cases are not sealed, but “average” women (who are victims of rape or whose lives are in danger) who have an abortion and are excommunicated simply do not make the world news like this tragic case of the nine-year-old.

(Wait - does the catholic church also outlaw abortion for ectopic pregnancy, which results in a 100% mortality rate for both the mother and the fetus? Because there is no “saving” the fetus in that case, it’s going to die right along with the mother when the fallopian tube ruptures.)

I always wondered if sympathetic doctors, in countries where abortion is outlawed even in cases of rape, incest, or the life of the mother, found ways to work around laws, especially in cases similar to this, or other tragedies? I wondered if they might perform a D&C or D&E, which would cause an abortion, but is often performed for a number of other gyn related problems?

Could not a sympathetic doctor write in a chart “abnormal menstrual cycle and heavy bleeding” and perform the procedure, knowing it was an abortion, to save the girl? Of course it would be at risk of their career, jail, or life in some countries! But to save a child such as the one in this case, I’m sure many a medical professional would risk it. Especially if a nine-year-old came to them in such a tragic case.

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Posted: 08 March 2009 06:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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macgyver - 08 March 2009 04:07 PM

Correction: It looks like I misread the article. The little girl was not excommunicated. Just mom and the doctors. I would assume this wasn’t the first abortion they had ever performed though unless they were interns. Why were they only excommunicated now. Were all the other fetuses lives less valuable?

You forgot to put in the part where the stepfather had been committing rape on the little girl since she was 6 years old, and was also raping her developmentally disabled sister as well. Both sins, obviously, easily forgiven by ‘god’ sick

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Posted: 08 March 2009 10:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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`
The next time anyone brings up the tired, baseless “religion/belief-in-God leads to more moral behaviour” canard, I’m going to bring THIS case up.

Not to mention the countless instances of the Catholic church caring more about molestor priests and the church’s ‘image’ than they do about the victims (and potential future victims) of these molestors.

If there are better examples of utter immorality-while-claiming-morality, I haven’t heard them.


`

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Posted: 08 March 2009 11:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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So the 9 y.o. girl, who was not physically able to deliver a baby, could have just died in childbirth.  It’s just wonderful how religion doesn’t give a damn about women/girls.  I say this, because if I read correctly somewhere, the dr stated she was physically unable to survive deliverly of the baby.  In this day and age, I find that just plain stupid of any church to insist a 9 y.o. deliver a baby.  IF anyone should be excommunicated, it is the step-father for raping his daughter, but NOOOO let the man go off scott free and punish the victim.  rolleyes  Stupid people.

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Posted: 09 March 2009 01:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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The Vatican has stepped in and confirmed the validity of the excommunication. So…..essentially, Hitler could have gone to the pope and asked for forgiveness for causing the deaths of ~ 10 million people, many of them children, and been forgiven so that upon his death he would go to ‘heaven’.(I have to add a blurb about the priests who abuse little children who are hidden AND promoted AND forgiven AND will go to ‘heaven’) But, because they performed an abortion to save the life of one brutalized little girl, those involved will rot in ‘hell’? I guess the problem is that the infants didn’t survive to get their dose of ‘original sin’. The catholic church is sick…. mad

WHERE IS THE WORLD-WIDE OUTRAGE????

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Posted: 10 March 2009 08:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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asanta - 09 March 2009 01:54 PM

The Vatican has stepped in and confirmed the validity of the excommunication. So…..essentially, Hitler could have gone to the pope and asked for forgiveness for causing the deaths of ~ 10 million people, many of them children, and been forgiven so that upon his death he would go to ‘heaven’.(I have to add a blurb about the priests who abuse little children who are hidden AND promoted AND forgiven AND will go to ‘heaven’) But, because they performed an abortion to save the life of one brutalized little girl, those involved will rot in ‘hell’? I guess the problem is that the infants didn’t survive to get their dose of ‘original sin’. The catholic church is sick…. mad

WHERE IS THE WORLD-WIDE OUTRAGE????

You know Asanta,reading your post here I got a funny little idea.I bet the Vatican would have went out of its way to forgive Hitler if he asked.It would have showered the Pope and the Vatican with the kind of Notoriety and Collateral that they need.
Even though most of South America is sanctioned by Rome,and has countless bishops and priests,it wouldn’t suprise me to learn that the Vatican still had protocols tucked away in it’s catacombs.Codes concerning races,and which ones are heathen and which ones are acceptable.
Hence,it is quite easy for the “catholicism run amok” in South America to castigate these “uncouths"as they see fit.

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Posted: 11 March 2009 02:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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VYAZMA - 10 March 2009 08:45 AM
asanta - 09 March 2009 01:54 PM

The Vatican has stepped in and confirmed the validity of the excommunication. So…..essentially, Hitler could have gone to the pope and asked for forgiveness for causing the deaths of ~ 10 million people, many of them children, and been forgiven so that upon his death he would go to ‘heaven’.(I have to add a blurb about the priests who abuse little children who are hidden AND promoted AND forgiven AND will go to ‘heaven’) But, because they performed an abortion to save the life of one brutalized little girl, those involved will rot in ‘hell’? I guess the problem is that the infants didn’t survive to get their dose of ‘original sin’. The catholic church is sick…. mad

WHERE IS THE WORLD-WIDE OUTRAGE????

You know Asanta,reading your post here I got a funny little idea.I bet the Vatican would have went out of its way to forgive Hitler if he asked.It would have showered the Pope and the Vatican with the kind of Notoriety and Collateral that they need.
Even though most of South America is sanctioned by Rome,and has countless bishops and priests,it wouldn’t suprise me to learn that the Vatican still had protocols tucked away in it’s catacombs.Codes concerning races,and which ones are heathen and which ones are acceptable.
Hence,it is quite easy for the “catholicism run amok” in South America to castigate these “uncouths"as they see fit.

Back in the 1930s one of the places Hitler signed treaties with (basically saying, “I won’t bother you if you don’t bother me.”) was with the Vatican. And after the war, the Vatican assisted in helping Nazi war criminals (like Klaus Barbie) escape to South America where most of them found work as servants of the fascist dictatorships there.

Interestingly, Pope Pius XI was anti-Nazi, but his successor, Pius XII, was pro-Nazi (“To the Illustrious Herr Adolf Hitler, Fuhrer and Chancellor of the German Reich!” - beginning of a letter sent to Berlin in 1939 by Pius XII). Now consider the fact that believers are supposed to hold that the pope is the vicar of Christ and keeper of St. Peter’s keys, and that the death of the pope and ascension of the next are orchestrated by “god” himself. This would imply that it was the will of “god” to kill off the anti-Nazi pope and instate the pro-Nazi one a few months before Hitler’s invasion of Poland.

How’s that for “holiness” and “morality”?

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Posted: 11 March 2009 06:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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cmbf117 - 11 March 2009 02:49 PM
VYAZMA - 10 March 2009 08:45 AM
asanta - 09 March 2009 01:54 PM

The Vatican has stepped in and confirmed the validity of the excommunication. So…..essentially, Hitler could have gone to the pope and asked for forgiveness for causing the deaths of ~ 10 million people, many of them children, and been forgiven so that upon his death he would go to ‘heaven’.(I have to add a blurb about the priests who abuse little children who are hidden AND promoted AND forgiven AND will go to ‘heaven’) But, because they performed an abortion to save the life of one brutalized little girl, those involved will rot in ‘hell’? I guess the problem is that the infants didn’t survive to get their dose of ‘original sin’. The catholic church is sick…. mad

WHERE IS THE WORLD-WIDE OUTRAGE????

You know Asanta,reading your post here I got a funny little idea.I bet the Vatican would have went out of its way to forgive Hitler if he asked.It would have showered the Pope and the Vatican with the kind of Notoriety and Collateral that they need.
Even though most of South America is sanctioned by Rome,and has countless bishops and priests,it wouldn’t suprise me to learn that the Vatican still had protocols tucked away in it’s catacombs.Codes concerning races,and which ones are heathen and which ones are acceptable.
Hence,it is quite easy for the “catholicism run amok” in South America to castigate these “uncouths"as they see fit.

Back in the 1930s one of the places Hitler signed treaties with (basically saying, “I won’t bother you if you don’t bother me.”) was with the Vatican. And after the war, the Vatican assisted in helping Nazi war criminals (like Klaus Barbie) escape to South America where most of them found work as servants of the fascist dictatorships there.

Interestingly, Pope Pius XI was anti-Nazi, but his successor, Pius XII, was pro-Nazi (“To the Illustrious Herr Adolf Hitler, Fuhrer and Chancellor of the German Reich!” - beginning of a letter sent to Berlin in 1939 by Pius XII). Now consider the fact that believers are supposed to hold that the pope is the vicar of Christ and keeper of St. Peter’s keys, and that the death of the pope and ascension of the next are orchestrated by “god” himself. This would imply that it was the will of “god” to kill off the anti-Nazi pope and instate the pro-Nazi one a few months before Hitler’s invasion of Poland.

How’s that for “holiness” and “morality”?

Yes,I’m sure more than one Catholic relished the plight of the jews at the hands of the nazis.Look at the holocaust denying bishop.

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Posted: 11 March 2009 08:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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A nice update to the case: Excommunicated Doctor Hailed As Hero at Women’s Health Conference

“Brazilian Minister of Health Jose Gomes Temporao called on those in attendance at a national convention on women’s health he hosted to acknowledge the “brilliant” work of the team of doctors who helped a 9-year-old girl abort twins. The doctor received a standing ovation.”

The President of Brazil also expressed how disturbed he was by the church’s actions. It’s a good link, check it out.

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