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uptight atheists….
Posted: 11 May 2009 06:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 76 ]
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asanta - 11 May 2009 01:14 PM

Fundie christians have killed doctors and massacred church members in the name of ‘god’. Andrea Yates killed her 5 children to save them from ‘satan’. I’ve yet to hear of a massacre or murdering spree in the name of atheism.


Oh why should atheists do such a thing?  They have no values, beliefs, or purposes.  rolleyes  That was pure sarcasm in case no one caught it.

While I have not heard of such thing either, people are human and it is possible that an atheist could if they had some sort of mental illness, like say Paranoid Schizophrenia or something.  It is not entirely impossible, but history does not have any documented cases.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 11 May 2009 08:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 77 ]
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jump_in_the_pit - 11 May 2009 11:14 AM
Mriana - 10 May 2009 11:08 PM
jump_in_the_pit - 10 May 2009 10:29 PM
asanta - 10 May 2009 07:15 PM
Mriana - 10 May 2009 07:05 PM

Ra?  *Mriana points to the sun*  There you go.  LOL

LOL Try again!!! I can rename ‘Sun’, ‘Ra’, but that doesn’t make it a deity!!!!

Again? Okay… the physicists tell us that we are star stuff!
Stars create people.  Maybe the Egyptians had it right, before
converting.  wink  Would your creator really hurt you, if you
believe in Ra?


OK Jump, LOL somehow I had to read that three times and it still didn’t make much sense.  What creator? My parents?

cool cheese  Somehow I always enjoy seeing your messages, Mriana. 

Stars create people, in fact.  I don’t know if Ra created them or what, in fun.  I was only
joking with Asanta, hoping everyone would laugh.  Don’t worry about parsing the logic
because it breaks down in the end, that break-down is the joke.  It is a vain attempt at
converting Asanta to believe in Ra… in the same spirit that you did… although with a bit
more evidence to amplify the fun.  cool smile

Yes!....I believe, I believe!!!!  wink

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Church; where sheep congregate to worship a zombie on a stick that turns into a cracker on Sundays…

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Posted: 11 May 2009 09:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 78 ]
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ROFLMBO!  We did it, Jump!  We have a new sun worshiping convert!  LOL  And people say we are uptight.  Right.  At least we can laugh and have fun.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 12 May 2009 06:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 79 ]
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mckenzievmd - 11 May 2009 01:37 PM

am really not sure if god would have to be more like us or like cauliflower in order to create a universe. That’s why I am an atheist, not an agnostic.

Hmmm.. Doesn’t it sound odd to you to say that a creator of the universe without any ability to think is just as reasonable as such a creator that can think? Sounds odd to me. Anyway, if you’re not sure, why is that more consistent with being an atheist (sure there is no god) than an agnostic (not sure that there is none)? I don’t follow your logic here

I wouldn’t consider a god without the ability to think a god, and I cannot imagine a thinking god, since intelligence seems to me, once again, an evolutionary adaptation of some animals in order to replicate their DNA. Any other god, the “anything is possible god,” doesn’t seem to me worthy of contemplating since I can’t even begin to imagine what kind of a god that would be. I can’t be agnostic about something that makes absolutely no sense to me.

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Posted: 12 May 2009 08:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 80 ]
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George,

So to be a god something has to be able to think, but since you cannot imagine thinking arising in any way except that which it has arisen on earth, the default position for you is god cannot exist. With respect, that seems to me very strange and weak logic. I mean, I cannot imagine anyone not liking chocolate since I like chocolate a LOT, and liking chocolate is a natural behavior connected with an evolutionary imperative to seek out sugar and other high-calorie foods. But can I then reasonably presume that no one can exist who doesn’t like chocolate? Again, I think you’ve placed evolution in, forgive me here, a godlike role of determining all characteristics of all possible beings, and that is something I doubt even the most strident evolutionary biologist would support. Anyway, probably not worth arguing the point, but I don’t see a cogent argument against agnosticism here.

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Posted: 12 May 2009 09:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 81 ]
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mckenzievmd - 12 May 2009 08:55 AM

I mean, I cannot imagine anyone not liking chocolate since I like chocolate a LOT, and liking chocolate is a natural behavior connected with an evolutionary imperative to seek out sugar and other high-calorie foods. But can I then reasonably presume that no one can exist who doesn’t like chocolate?

You’re joking, right?  gulp  I don’t see how your chocolate analogy has anything to do with what I said.

Of course I can imagine a god who can think and who acquired thinking without actually evolving it the same way we did. But that’s when I would have to be willing to be agnostic about the possibility of being a butterfly who is dreaming about being George.

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Posted: 12 May 2009 09:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 82 ]
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George - 12 May 2009 06:27 AM

I wouldn’t consider a god without the ability to think a god, and I cannot imagine a thinking god, since intelligence seems to me, once again, an evolutionary adaptation of some animals in order to replicate their DNA. Any other god, the “anything is possible god,” doesn’t seem to me worthy of contemplating since I can’t even begin to imagine what kind of a god that would be. I can’t be agnostic about something that makes absolutely no sense to me.

Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say you can’t be atheist about something that makes no sense to you? If it doesn’t make sense to you, then how can you claim to know anything about it, like whether or not it exists?

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“What people do is they confuse cynicism with skepticism. Cynicism is ‘you can’t change anything, everything sucks, there’s no point to anything.’ Skepticism is, ‘well, I’m not so sure.’” -Bill Nye

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Posted: 12 May 2009 10:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 83 ]
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George,

I’m just not sure I understand what you’re saying. You seemed to say above that you cannot imagine a thinking god because thinking can only come about through evolution of physical beings (“I cannot imagine a thinking god, since intelligence seems to me, once again, an evolutionary adaptation of some animals in order to replicate their DNA”). Now you’re saying that you can imagine such a thing, but that for some reason the idea seems so ludicrous that it is the equivalent of imaging you’re really a butterfly. Why? Forgetting the whole issue of god for a moment, why is the idea of a thinking being that doesn’t come by the ability to think through our kind of evolution so incredible? Does that mean that you exclude the possibility of, say, machines that can think because they must be constructed not evolved and so cannot have this ability? I’m just having a hard time following you here.

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Posted: 12 May 2009 10:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 84 ]
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mckenzievmd - 12 May 2009 10:00 AM

George,

I’m just not sure I understand what you’re saying. You seemed to say above that you cannot imagine a thinking god because thinking can only come about through evolution of physical beings (“I cannot imagine a thinking god, since intelligence seems to me, once again, an evolutionary adaptation of some animals in order to replicate their DNA”). Now you’re saying that you can imagine such a thing, but that for some reason the idea seems so ludicrous that it is the equivalent of imaging you’re really a butterfly. Why? Forgetting the whole issue of god for a moment, why is the idea of a thinking being that doesn’t come by the ability to think through our kind of evolution so incredible? Does that mean that you exclude the possibility of, say, machines that can think because they must be constructed not evolved and so cannot have this ability? I’m just having a hard time following you here.

Yes, Brennen, I can imagine a thinking machine. This thinking machine would, however, be an extended phenotype of our evolved intelligence, just like cars are; being able to move at 100km/hour or HAL being afraid looks to me not that different.

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Posted: 12 May 2009 10:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 85 ]
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domokato - 12 May 2009 09:46 AM

Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say you can’t be atheist about something that makes no sense to you?

No, that wouldn’t make sense to me at all. I am a disbeliever, not an agnostic, about the possibility of being a butterfly who is dreaming about being George, because it’s, well, a stupid idea. I can be an agnostic about things which are not provable, but not impossible, like the theory of the multiverse, for example.

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Posted: 12 May 2009 01:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 86 ]
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<cheesy-sales-pitch>

Ra Ra for our team, Mriana!  Yay!  LOL

So, the benefits that believer Asanta receives are: to lay-out
under the Sun; enjoy its good warmth; no worries about Ultra Violet
light that damage that all of us have to worry about regardless of
skin tone; fun in Sun; whether you visit California, the desert,
the Rio beaches, Egypt, or anywhere Asanta can simply relax and
just enjoy!  Party down, turn it up, get it on, work hard and
play hard, the world is your oyster, Asanta!

Now everyone else line up and get your favorite god right here!
We have dozens for sale at low Low LOW prices, we just ask
for a little faith from you!  You two can have a god of your
choice with great benefits, just imagine the possibilities as
you browse through our wonderful selection! 

Who never ever wants to give it up with “Heh and Hauhet Deities
of Infinity and Eternity”?

Who are are the dancers, the hipsters, the hip-hop people looking
for the night life with “Heqet Frog Goddess”?

Who wants to get in-touch with their most honest ideas, from their
deepest past with “Ihy - The Child God”?

Who likes to enjoy the water with “Mahaf - The Ferryman”?

Does anyone want to climb to the top of the family tree with
“Mut Grandmother of the Gods”?

Who wants to be with the brave beautiful loving goddess “Pakhet
The Strength of Woman”?

Hello!  “Qadesh - Goddess of Esctasy and Sexual Pleasure” Who
wants her?

Uuuh, I don’t know what to say about this one, but who wants her
“Gengen Wer - The Great Honker”?

“Walk like an Egyptian”
</cheese-sales-pitch>

[ Edited: 12 May 2009 01:36 PM by jump_in_the_pit ]
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bicycles: less mass, no fuel, lower speed, more beautiful, more quiet, lower cost, less wear-and-tear on the roads, more social because you can talk to people beside you, low-impact heart healthy exercise, easy parking… they are not perfect, but are they better than cars?.

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Posted: 12 May 2009 05:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 87 ]
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jump_in_the_pit - 12 May 2009 01:20 PM

<cheesy-sales-pitch>
Now everyone else line up and get your favorite god right here!
We have dozens for sale at low Low LOW prices, we just ask
for a little faith from you!  You two can have a god of your
choice with great benefits, just imagine the possibilities as
you browse through our wonderful selection! 

We’re having a 3 for 1 sale currently. LOL

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 14 May 2009 09:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 88 ]
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As the wonderfully satirical “Deteriorata” counsels: “Therefore, make peace with your god, whatever you perceive him to be: hairy thunderer or cosmic muffin.”

Admittedly, I’m more of the “hairy thunderer” type, and am particularly fond of Thor.  (Heck, he even had his own comic book!)

I think our ancestors had a very different attitudinal relationship with their gods than the cringing, whiny posture struck by most modern monotheists (“Oh Lord, have mercy!  You are soooo cool, while I’m just a worthless piece of crud ...”)

No! Prometheus stole fire from the gods for humanity; in Nordic myth, the gods eventually perish and leave the universe to mankind.  They had their powers, but we have ours, and the relationship was often competitive and contentious.

There was a grotto near ancient Rome where people wrote down their prayer requests, attached them to an offering of some sort, and then tossed them into a pond within the cave.  Some of these have been recovered.  None of this “Pity me, please,” stuff: The tone was more like, “My son is going to Greece to study.  It’s really expensive. I’m giving you ten bucks today as an offering so that you can make him successful later in life.  If you come through, I’ll give you more.  If not, you won’t get another cent out of me!”

Ya gotta have attitude!

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“My mind is not for rent,
To any god or government”

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Posted: 14 May 2009 09:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 89 ]
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The tone was more like, “My son is going to Greece to study.  It’s really expensive. I’m giving you ten bucks today as an offering so that you can make him successful later in life.  If you come through, I’ll give you more.  If not, you won’t get another cent out of me!“

That example clearly shows the true psychological basis of religion. It’s a merging of the social reasoning mental module with the “natural history” mental module (which attempts to explain and predict natural phenomena). When you combine the two, then you can apply the methods of social manipulation to natural history problems. Sacrifice to the gods so that they’ll return the favor. All very simple and logical, from the perspective of the human brain. But whoever said that the human brain was logical?

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Posted: 14 May 2009 09:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 90 ]
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Ricky the K - 14 May 2009 09:11 AM

I think our ancestors had a very different attitudinal relationship with their gods than the cringing, whiny posture struck by most modern monotheists (“Oh Lord, have mercy!  You are soooo cool, while I’m just a worthless piece of crud ...”)

I don’ think that’s necessarily true. I think people always saw themselves as inferior to the gods. What did changed though, is our focus on the different types of inferiority—or the different types of gods’ superiority. And I am tend to believe this “god fashion” may correlate with what is “in” from the perspective of the sexual selection. In the past women physically sought strong men, so their gods were muscular warriors. Today, women know that it is the intelligence above all that pays off, and so the theists see their god as the omniscient being, and even the agnostics are agnostic about god’s existence because they claim that we cannot know for sure if god exists because we are not intelligent enough to speculate about it. IQ is in and god no longer needs a beard and muscular and hairy body.

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